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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 2987 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I thank you both for your opening statements.

In our previous two committee meetings, we heard from an extensive list of stakeholders. No one is looking for children鈥檚 services to be included in the national care service; no one is demanding that. Most witnesses were ambivalent at best, and they were overwhelmingly concerned that that is a giant distraction that will get in the way of them doing their work. Can you honestly say that that will not be a bureaucratic monster that will get in the way of children鈥檚 services providing the care that is needed? Why are those who are on the front line so unconvinced that that is the right approach?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I can bring in Iona Colvin, but I remind the panel that we are focusing on the children鈥檚 services element. We know that there is extensive work going on with the national care service across adult services, but we really need to drill down on children鈥檚 services, on which Stephanie Callaghan has questions. If we can pick up your questions now, Stephanie, that would be super.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I will interject again here鈥攕orry, minister. I wonder whether Miss Haughey might want to respond to that question before we move on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

I think that we have that information, minister, but thank you for the offer. Ms Colvin鈥檚 answer explains some of that thread, which I know that we will pick up later with questions from Mr Marra.

Everyone who has come to the committee and presented evidence has told us that structural change is not the answer. Ross McGuffie from North Lanarkshire told the committee last week that

鈥淭ransformative change takes ... time ... Sometimes, we can end up reaching the next restructure before the current one has had a chance to get to where it needs to be.鈥濃擺Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 16 November; c 10.]

I know how complex the legislation around IJBs is, so I recognise that that is perhaps not the answer and that we need to do something. However, would it not be better to improve the current system and to take our time investing in what is taking place now rather than perhaps going through change of this magnitude? My concern lies in the huge structural change, which could mean that you focus on getting managers in place instead of focusing on those who are already working with children and families to deliver services.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Bob Doris has a supplementary question on this theme.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

It was very good for Mr Stewart this morning.

Do you have any comments, Ms Haughey? If not, we will move to questions from Mr Dey.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

We might well jump around with regard to some of the statements that you have just made, minister. I know that there will be questions on the issues that you have just raised in those comments, and I hope that we will keep track of things.

I call Mr Dey, who has a follow-up question, to be followed by Mr Rennie.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

If the answer from Ms Colvin will respond to the specifics that Mr Marra is looking for, that would be helpful.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

Miss Haughey, would you like to comment on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Sue Webber

You will, but Michael Marra has a follow-up question on kinship care before you move on to that.