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Action 15 in the “Mental Health Strategy: 2017-2027” is to

“Increase the workforce to give access to dedicated mental health professionals to all A&Es, all GP practices, every police station custody suite, and to our prisons. Over the next five years increasing additional investment to £35 million for 800 additional mental health workers in those key settings.”

Derek Frew and Dr Williams, what access do you have to mental health workers?

I was looking at the definition of trauma-informed practice. We have heard in evidence that many of the criminal justice agencies have started to bring in trauma-informed practice without legislation being in place. When we heard from NHS Education for Scotland, it suggested that there would be benefits in extending the definition. What are your thoughts on that? If we do not get the definition right, will we run the risk of organisations only working up to the letter of the law and not going above and beyond that to keep finding new ways to improve?

I agree with that, but putting it into practice will have an initial cost. We have your letter that came to the committee last night, and all through that letter there is reference to financial constraints. Those are why a lot of previous legislation has not been implemented. I would be concerned that, because of the costs of implementing the bill, there could be unintended consequences from other things getting left on the side, and we could end up inadvertently causing more trauma to victims.

I have a final question, on the Parole Board for Scotland. The Parole Board said that it was not confident that the bill would change the traumatic experience of victims going through the Parole Board process. Do you have any plans to make more specific provisions relating to the Parole Board in the bill in order to change that?

Thank you. You have actually answered one of my other questions—I was going to ask whether you are concerned that there is not a sufficient number of solicitors who are willing to be included on the register. You seem to be doing work to recruit solicitors, so that answers that question.

I go back to the cost. You referred to the letter that you sent to the committee last night, which says that

“there are budgetary pressures in relation to implementing the Act in full”

amounting to

“£15 million a year.”

It goes on to say:

“The Vulnerable Witnesses (Criminal Evidence) (Scotland) Act 2019 ... has not yet been implemented beyond Phase 1”.

Again, in relation to implementation of aspects of the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021, the letter states that those

“all have associated resource implications.”

It also says that implementation was affected

“due to resourcing and other priorities following the Programme for Government”.

I wonder, therefore, whether we should look at some of the legislation that has not yet been fully implemented, rather than trying to batter on by bringing in even more legislation that will not be implemented unless we get the proper funding for it. The implementation of that previous legislation would have a huge impact on some of the trauma that victims and witnesses face.

As the letter notes, one aspect of the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021 was about allowing victims

“to remain in the family home”

by

“enabling a social landlord to transfer a tenancy to a victim/survivor”.

Again, ensuring that we have implemented some of the previous legislation would go a huge way towards making sure that we reduce trauma. Should we perhaps stop and look at some of the previous legislation, and put the funding in to get it implemented? As you have said, there is a will within the judiciary to undertake trauma-informed practice.

Maybe more.

Earlier, you said that the role will provide a statutory mechanism for the voices and experiences of victims to be heard. You also said that it would give them an independent voice and champion and that it would monitor compliance. However, there are already many groups and organisations out there that could perform that same function. Rape Crisis Scotland, Victim Support and Scottish Women’s Aid have all expressed concern that funding for the commissioner should not take funding from the front-line services that they provide. In the Finance and Public Administration Committee concern was also expressed that

“it is becoming regarded as a casual thing to suggest and implement the establishment of another commissioner, despite it being an expensive extension of our public sector.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 10 January 2023; c 20.]

We all know that finances are finite. We will have to find the money from somewhere. Where is the money coming from? Can you guarantee that it will not be taken from existing front-line services?

Brian, do you want to come in?

Three years on, the special measures in the 2020 act are not yet in force. When does the Scottish Government aim to have part 3 of the bill fully operational?

Will the police be able to implement that, or is there a cost implication?

You said in your opening statement that all organisations are supportive of bringing in trauma-informed practices. Those organisations have highlighted all the issues that we have highlighted, so would the money not be better spent on fixing the things that we already know are wrong? The money is going to have to come from somewhere.