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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 418 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I just wanted to establish, which I think we have, whether some form of enjoyment and killing could take place, and it sounds like it could.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I am a Labour Party list MSP for the North East Scotland region.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

Alex Hogg talked about the different breeds of dog that are used in different activities to flush different kinds of prey. Are foxes ever flushed on a rough shoot?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

Yes, although I think that there is still some confusion.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I have a question about enforcement—I will be guided by the convener if he feels that it does not fit here.

We have discussed the enforcement of the section 6 exception relating to no more than two dogs being used for sporting activity, and we have been talking today about rough shooting and how it might be difficult to ascertain which dogs were used, who was using them and so on.

If that limit was removed, would there not be enforcement issues, because activities would take place with more than two dogs? Would there not be issues around enforcing the limit in non-sporting areas, such as mounted hunts? Would there not be confusion?

I guess that what I am getting at is that, although we have heard that there are enforcement issues relating to the limit in this instance, if it was not there, would there not be other enforcement issues?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I seek clarification. The Scottish Government’s stated aim is to pursue the highest possible animal welfare standards, so can we get an explanation as to why the bill has ended up having an exemption for sport? How does the Scottish Government square the hunting and killing of animals for sport with pursuing the highest possible animal welfare standards?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I expect that we will come on to this in more detail later, when we discuss enforcement, but it sounds as though you are saying that, as long as there are enough humans present to have plausible deniability, we could continue to see packs of dogs flushing foxes, if people can say, “Each of us is here separately with one or two dogs.” Can you see how that might—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

Is sport predator control?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

Could there be a sort of relay flushing, with one dog flushing to another dog, then to another dog and finally to the shooter? How would you keep track of that mammal and know that it had come into contact with only two dogs?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Mercedes Villalba

I have a follow-up question. I am concerned that the exemption in section 6 of the bill, which includes rough shooting, will undermine the wider purpose of the bill because, essentially, it allows for more than two dogs to be present during an activity that involves flushing wild mammals, whereas that is not permissible for flushing foxes.

The rationale seems to hang on the idea that, on a rough shoot, groups of more than two dogs can be prevented from forming a pack. I am interested in hearing a bit more about the evidence base for why that is possible in rough shooting circumstances but not when foxes are being flushed. Why, in one instance, is it believed that the level of control over dogs will prevent them from forming a pack, losing control and potentially killing the animal whereas, when foxes are involved, the claim is that it is not possible to control dogs and prevent a pack from forming? To an outsider—I have not been on a shoot—it seems that foxes and rabbits are wild mammals. I am not clear on the distinction and the rationale behind the exemption.