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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 1653 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

I would like to drill into that a little more. As part of the need to look at coherence across the piece, there is a need to consider policy coherence. Can you say at this point whether that was mentioned in the Scottish Government鈥檚 submission to DEFRA? Given that the issue is complex and that there are lots of moving parts in lots of different departments, pulling a lever in one place could completely upset something else that is going on. How do we ensure that there is not only overall cohesion but policy coherence across the piece?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Okay, but, as you said, the legal aid reform piece is crucial, and we are waiting.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Do the barriers have different impacts on different types of groups and organisations? Obviously, NGOs might have more money behind them than community groups. Does that prevent community groups and local organisations from even considering trying to gain access to environmental justice?

10:15  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

There is also the threat of having to pay the legal fees of the other side if there is a loss, such as in the case that was mentioned. That is why the qualified one-way cost shifting is so important. Where are we in terms of conversations that the ERCS has had with the Scottish Government about that? Has there been any indication that there is recognition of the need for qualified one-way cost shifting?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, panel. Thank you very much for joining us.

I want to carry on the line of questioning about the impact on NGOs and individuals who might be seeking redress and access to justice. Ben Christman gave the example of the John Muir Trust, which faced a bill of more than 拢120,000 after having lost a case. Do people find barriers other than costs to accessing justice, and are they different for NGOs, community groups and individuals? Can you give us a flavour of the types of barriers that different types of people who might be seeking litigation face?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

You said that not everybody is eligible to access legal aid, so that could be a barrier. I will leave it there for now, but I might come back in later.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

That point about looking holistically and aiming for cohesion is really useful, because it is easy to get fixated on one little issue in one place and not think about the bigger picture.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. It is important to get that on the record.

I will shift to a couple of different questions.

What is your view on the arguments put by the Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland that the SCJC does not consult very widely, or widely enough, on court rules that are intended to allow access to justice in environmental cases?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Aarhus Convention

Meeting date: 12 November 2024

Maggie Chapman

I appreciate the constraints that you feel under in answering some of our questions, as the subject covers more than two portfolios; it is quite a broad area. We heard clearly from our first panel this morning about the need to examine the whole process of justice. In your opening comments, you outlined the three pillars, one of which is about accessing the information.

Is there anything that you can say about what the Scottish Government is doing to look at the three pillars in a holistic way to see where the elements are? Access is your job; some of the other pillars will be down to planning, local government or environment. How is the Government looking at the subject holistically?