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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1653 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you very much, convener, and thank you, panel, for being here this morning.

I will try not to rehearse what has already been covered by my colleagues but, like others, I want to reiterate my very clear concern, anger and frustration that we are where we are today. We have been trying to get answers to some of the questions that have been asked since November, and although we are finally starting to get those answers, the fact that it has taken four months is not, I think, adequate—and that is before we get to the content and detail of the recovery plan.

Professor O’Neill, you said that the recovery plan was written with a financial lens but there was now an opportunity to move to a more holistic approach. When you said that, was it only the bottom line—the finances—that you were taking into account?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

So it has not been done as part of the plan. It will come later, as an afterthought.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Okay—thank you.

You said that lessons had been learned from previous restructuring. In 2023, I think, Inspiring Futures produced a report on the need to improve communications following the latest restructuring at that time. How have you ensured that lessons and all the recommendations from that report have been implemented in the past four months?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful to know.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is a consultation on a draft plan that already exists; it is not co-design or co-production.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

What about the staff? You talked about having engaged with staff unions. Going forward, what do you expect that engagement to look like?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Of course.

You have talked about learning lessons and changing what you do and how you do it in the light of things that have happened in the past—good or bad. However, I am still not hearing from you a clear commitment to anything more than consultation; I am not hearing a commitment to genuine engagement and participation. By that, I mean getting staff and students involved in presenting ideas and suggestions that are not made only in response to a plan that the Scottish Government, the trade unions and most of us sitting around the committee table find unacceptable. Frankly, anybody who has seen the plan finds it unacceptable. I am not hearing from you any more than, “This is the plan. We can tweak it around the edges, but that’s it.â€

What have you have learned from engaging and communicating on the previous restructuring, and in the past four months, that will change from now?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Were any staff members on the task force?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Which you lead.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I will pick up on the idea of risk assessments. I am actually quite staggered that student numbers were assessed as green until they were red. Do you need to reassess how you calculate and identify risk appetite?