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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 1795 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, that is helpful.

In your view, is depathologisation an integral part of the bill that we are scrutinising?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thanks. That is helpful.

A moment ago, you talked about the importance of language, how it is used and the need for it to be clear and not dehumanising. I was struck by one of your earlier comments in response to one of Rachael Hamilton’s questions on data collection and people answering the sex question based on a process of self-identification or self-declaration. You likened it to the age question, and I think that you said that we do not expect people to

“make up whatever age they like.”

Are you saying that people make up whatever gender they like?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Peter Dunne, I will come to you.

You talked about the importance of the need to mix international good practice and the human rights standards with the lived experience of trans people and those who are going to be most affected by the legislation. In previous evidence sessions, we have heard about the potential for views about who will be most affected to come into conflict. In your comparative analyses, how have you drawn out any conflicts or competitive notions of impact to come to your view on reform?

12:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I am aware that a couple of my colleagues want to drill down into some of the data questions, and you are covering some of that. In handing back over to the convener, I say that there are different processes here: data collection processes versus the process for obtaining a GRC. I am not sure that we necessarily need to conflate them in this way. I will leave it there for now.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Sorry, can I just come in on that point? You say that the shift to self-ID will remove any gatekeeping. What gatekeeping do you envisage that there should be? Is the only legitimate gatekeeping the current gender recognition panel that assesses the dysphoria diagnosis?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thank you for that.

I will come back to Professor Sullivan. You talked earlier about medical records and the need to align medical checks, screening and those kinds of things with the right bodies, essentially. We heard from Robin White that the process of recording that information in medical records can already happen, and that the process for getting a gender recognition certificate actually has nothing to do with those records. I am wondering why you think that that is relevant if the bill that we are considering is about the process for getting a GRC, rather than how medical records are recorded?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thank you very much, Victor. That was helpful.

I want to explore in more detail the connection or otherwise that you see between medical or psychological assessment and, as you have highlighted, the removal of gender dysphoria as a pathology. There has been discussion about whether there should be gatekeeping or medical or psychological assessment in this process. Some witnesses have suggested that some of that should be retained in order to ensure that the mechanism is not open to abuse. Can you comment on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, that answers my question. I will put a similar question to the SHRC. We have heard a lot about the requirement or otherwise to remove the gender dysphoria diagnosis and the gender reassignment assessment panel. I do not know which of you wants to answer this question, which is about the element of risk management that Victor Madrigal-Borloz talked about.

If we accept what I understand is your position, which is that we move to self-declaration and remove the panel and the need for a gender dysphoria diagnosis, how do we best manage in the Scottish context the risks that Victor identified around potential abuse and misunderstanding of what rights are being conferred?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Being mindful of an earlier comment about what the reform that we are scrutinising seeks to do and what it does not do, your remarks are well made.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, Tom, and thank you for being here and for what you have said so far.

I want to explore a couple of areas, the first of which is community engagement. In your opening remarks, you said that you see town centres as being at the heart of decision making. What do you mean by that? How can we make it happen?