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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 1498 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thanks for that.

Conditions will need to be satisfied for any GRC application and you will then be required to give information as to the effect of the GRC, as per section 3 of the bill. Have you determined what that information will include and what you will be looking for?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, panel. Thank you for joining us and for your opening remarks.

My first question is for Paul Lowe and is about the processing and assessing of applications for GRCs. Can you outline how you would go about that? Would it merely be about accepting the statutory declaration at face value? What checks and balances do you envisage having in place?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning to the panel. I thank you for joining us, and for your opening statements and the written materials that you provided in advance. I have a couple of questions around the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and the medical panel that is in place under the current legislation.

Perhaps I can come to Anthony Horan first. You talked about the higher level of suicidal ideation and the negative health impacts that many members of the trans community experience disproportionately in comparison with the broader population. You can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you said something along these lines: that you would not want to see a lessening of engagement with, or connection to, the medical profession or the psychiatric profession, and that you would therefore like that panel to be retained. Did I understand you correctly there? However, we have heard from people who have been through that process that they never actually speak to the panel. There is not the patient-doctor relationship, or the supportive relationship, that you might expect. There is just a body of evidence that is sent to, and then assessed by, what is, for the trans person鈥攖o be frank鈥攁n anonymous panel.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Great; thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

You said that it is an effective means of engaging people in policy making. Does that link to your point about, in essence, what data is for? We use data in order to inform and change society for the better, rather than its having any intrinsic value in and of itself. Is that more or less what you are saying?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

That is very helpful. I completely understand that you cannot go into the analysis of recommendations, because you are not yet at that stage.

When the review was kicked off, paused and restarted, was there any sense that there needed to be a radical change to a multidisciplinary, holistic risk assessment process as part of the policy, or was the review just looking at how things could be better generally?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I accept that members of the trans community have high levels of suicidal ideation, but I do not attribute that to the lack of contact with a medical panel as in the current process. I attribute it to transphobia within society more broadly.

If that diagnosis of gender dysphoria is required, how would you see the GRC process applying to trans people who do not experience gender dysphoria?

11:45  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Diagnosis itself is a current requirement so it does not capture those who do not experience gender dysphoria. The current system therefore does not serve a proportion of the trans community who do not have that diagnosis, which means that we are not supporting them at all through the current process, and I view that as problematic. Given the lack of engagement of the panel with the individual, that medical support is not there. I agree that support needs to be provided, but I am not sure that using this process is the appropriate way.

Karen, I will come to you on this. Is it your clear position that the diagnosis of gender dysphoria is problematic? You have stated that you welcome its removal. What do you see as being legitimate or necessary evidence or criteria for the new process?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I will come to you, finally, Fraser Sutherland. In your opening remarks, you said that autonomy is really important. How do you see that medicalisation of the process interacting with the notion of autonomy, if at all?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Okay. Do you anticipate that you will determine what to include once the bill is at stage 3? In any process, will you seek clarification around, for example, any evidence that is required?