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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 December 2025
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Displaying 1775 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Okay, that is helpful. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks, Rachel. That is really helpful. It is important for us to bear that in mind as we consider the bill. You mentioned the child’s increase in agency and the receding of parental rights as that happens. What mechanism do you envisage will enable that to be supported? Is it statutory guidance for schools, or training and support for teachers? Do we have the mechanisms in place or will they be enabled by the bill? Do we need to look at something else that will support that shift and the transfer of responsibility, I suppose, from the parent and state to the child?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. I saw Angela O’Hagan nodding vehemently as you were speaking. Angela, do you want to come back in on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is really helpful. Elaine, do you want to comment on that? You do not have to, but you are welcome to if you want to add anything.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. I thank Stephen Allison for his comments, which I echo. I was appalled by the situation that Leah Rivka described. That should not happen in any school in any situation.

Barbara Coupar, you said that it was interesting and important that this conversation is taking place at the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee rather than at the Education, Children and Young People Committee because of the foundation of rights that underpins not only the proposals in the bill but the broader conversation. Could you say a little bit more about the conversation that takes place within Catholic education and Catholic schools on the rights in the UNCRC—in particular, article 12, on the right for young people to be heard, and article 14, on freedom of expression and freedom of religion? How do you draw those into the discussion, given some of the tensions and sensitivities that we have mentioned?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that was helpful. I suppose that we are talking about some of the tensions that folk have outlined. If there was strong disagreement between a child and their parent about how they wanted to develop their spirituality, their freedom of expression or their freedom of belief, how would you facilitate conversations about that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

I put that question to the other witnesses. Given the sensitivities, tensions and potential conflicts that some of you have identified, how will society be able to support children to express their rights, as enshrined in the UNCRC, particularly those in articles 12 and 14?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much for that. It is important to note that, just because things are not brought to the surface, it does not mean that they are not rumbling underneath. Some of the examples that you have given highlight the broader issues of stigmatisation, othering and just not feeling like you belong, whether they are raised by parent or child. We will consider that carefully as we gather our evidence on the bill.

Do witnesses have any other comments on the rights?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Dr Sanchez, you have been quite clear that, in your view, the mandating of RO is the main issue, and that the distinction between RO and RME is important.

Fraser, what would your solution be, if not the provisions in the bill? Given the guidance and the statutory obligations that exist, where should the conversation about rights for parents and guardians and children and young people go? We heard quite a lot of tension about children being pitted against their parents or guardians and the consequences that that can have, especially if there are issues of family separation and so on. We also heard about the idea of enabling spiritual development in a way that is right for the individual, rather than saying, “This is how it has to happen.” Can you see a way through that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

You are looking at the statutory enforcement route.