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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 1989 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Yes, I have a follow-up to Kevin Stewart’s question. A couple of local authorities have suggested that the bill might cause some problems. For example, Moray Council said:

“National Planning Framework 4 allows excavation of deep peat for renewable energy developments. This is an action that would otherwise possibly fall within the definition of ecocide.”

Would it be a defence that NPF4 allowed that to take place?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

There is another example in Highland Council’s letter, which describes a few situations, including one involving an underground cable from Dundonnel to Beauly and one involving Coul Links golf course, which, it says,

“could be viewed as reckless if the development was granted against advice relating to environmental harm.”

In that instance, an environmental NGO could put in an objection.

It is all about risk for planning authorities. If the bill were in place, would it make it too risky for the council to grant permission to some of those projects?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I am trying to work out whether that is where the company gets most of its funding from.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

The act refers to all or most of a company’s funding.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

So, there is not really any risk of us having to undo this because the funding is not mostly public. That is what I am trying to understand.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

You said that it is not about having one or the other. If there was not enough evidence to go down the ecocide offence route, the Government could switch to the route involving amending the RRA, but, as we heard from the Government last week, that would require alternative conviction provision. Since you introduced the bill, have you had any discussions with the Government about alternative conviction provision?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service was concerned that, if prosecutors went down the ecocide offence route and someone was proved to be not guilty, they would not be able to go down the RRA route afterwards. However, last week, the Government said that alternative conviction provision would enable prosecutors to go down the RRA route if it looked as though they would not get a conviction by going down the ecocide offence route, and the Government seemed open to that. Have you had any discussions with the Government about how such provision could be added to strengthen the bill?

10:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I have one question. The subsidiaries can be audited by Audit Scotland because they receive all or most of their funding from a public body that is already audited by the Auditor General for Scotland. What percentage of its funding comes from the public? What happens if that funding goes down because more income comes from passengers? Am I understanding the situation completely wrongly?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

No. Anyone could write in and say, “This could be an ecocide event.” I am just trying to understand whether that would plant a seed of doubt in the planning authority’s mind. It might think, “Hold on; this is a bit too risky. We will not accept this application, because it might be seen as an ecocide event in years to come.”

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I want to continue on the theme of area-based management tools, to get a better understanding.

Is it possible that the UK Government could bring in another highly protected marine area by the back door? Can it make changes to toughen up the rules about where fishermen can fish?