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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 June 2025
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Displaying 1574 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

Are you aware of any discussions between colleagues in your local authorities and Zero Waste Scotland or the Scottish Government about where the figure has come from? Has that detail been set out?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

I am conscious that the waste management process in your various councils has changed dramatically over the past decade. You have been through a lot of change processes over that period, and you have described some of those and the changes that you have made.

In layman’s terms—perhaps we will not get a figure—do the costs that have been set out feel realistic? Given your experience of change management and the cost of making those changes, do the costs feel realistic to you?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

That is useful. My next question is about the distributional effect. Given what has been said, we do not have clarity on that or an understanding of it. As a Dundonian, I have sympathy with Mr Devine in relation to the challenge of collecting waste in a local authority that has the tightest boundaries in the United Kingdom and where 50 per cent of properties are flatted. Has the Government given any indication that it recognises those challenges? Has there been any discussion with the Government about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

Kirsty McGuire, you mentioned the savings that you thought might be realisable in relation to littering. In Dundee, street cleaning has been cut to the bone. There have been several rounds of cutbacks as a result of the £6 billion that has been taken out of local government funding over the past decade across Scotland. Is it realistic to think that we can scale back those services any further? There will always be some level of residual waste, even if we take coffee cups out of the equation. It does not seem as though we have a service that it is up to scratch at the moment in many parts of Scotland, let alone if we consider the idea that we might be able to scale it back further. Are those the kind of areas in which you have identified that savings could be made?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

Okay. Paragraph 48 also sets out some details about the extended producer responsibility scheme. As the convener touched on, that is one area in which there will be an income stream to try to offset some costs. Are you aware of any discussions about the scale of that income stream—how much money might come in—and how it would be distributed across different local authorities?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

That will be important.

Mr Jack, you alluded to some of the challenges that might exist in reclaiming fines in areas of deprivation. Is there any recognition of the need for the challenges of reclaiming fines and achieving behaviour changes in areas of deprivation to be recognised in the financial structures?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

The financial memorandum sets out that there will be costs of £227,000 across three years for a local authority. That seems to me to be a vanishingly small figure. In his first answer, Mr Devine said that he was looking at capital investment of between £1.5 million and £2 million, as well as five to 10 additional staff, to set up one waste management centre, but the allocation is £227,000 across three years. Is that realistic?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

There has been no clarity so far. Kirsty McGuire is shaking her head. You do not know whether the money will go into the block grant or whether there will be a fund—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

I recognise that—so, there is no direct recognition in the discussions around the bill, or in other discussions, of why those rates are so low.

The convener referred to the fines that might be levied on local authorities for not achieving a particular recycling rate over the long term. The bill increases the challenges in that respect, because Dundee City Council could be fined for not being able to achieve that recycling rate, even though that is a factor of the boundaries that have been set for it by the Scottish Government, rather than being to do with the performance of individuals in the group that you work in. Is there any recognition of that in how the financial aspects of the bill might be dealt with?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michael Marra

Paragraph 48 of the financial memorandum states that Zero Waste Scotland has calculated that the cost of implementing the current code of practice will be £88.4 million. Do you know where that figure has come from?