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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 1574 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

One of the recurring themes that the committee has heard about over recent months, particularly from the cabinet secretary, has been the challenge of meeting the public sector pay bill. Compared to the rest of the country, a significantly higher proportion of the working public in Scotland works in public services and we have a higher wage level already. Therefore, one of the key issues that the cabinet secretary is grappling with is that a 5 per cent increase on our pay bill is significantly higher than a 5 per cent increase on the pay bill of the rest of the country. I will put this question to all the witnesses: where do you see the trade-offs between pay rises and head count? Teacher numbers has been used as an example. Is that a choice that councils are having to make or that you anticipate that you will have to make?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

You have been in post for two and a half years, so this will be your third time in this process. Is that right? Or the second time, perhaps? Let us say the third time.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

The convener touched on some of the other issues regarding council tax reform, including revaluation, extra bands, changes to the reduction schemes and so on, which you cover in your submission. That work is on-going, and you have said that you want to see that accelerated in the coming months. We are nine weeks out from the budget, so will any of that be done in time?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

It is fair to say that we have not met that aspiration, have we?.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

There are no proposals on the table, so you do not aspire to get this done in nine weeks, do you? That would be—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

I am thinking about the framework as a decision-making tool. Is it not the case that, in the absence of economic growth, there will be fewer resources as demand grows? If we do not grow the amount of finance that is available to the public sector through economic growth, we will have less available because of climate change, technological change, demographic change and increasing pressure on our public services. Does the framework therefore not become a tool to prioritise cuts? Rather than saying what works, it becomes a question of what does not work. Is it an effective tool to determine what does not work?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

You are an optimist, but could we be a little more pragmatic about it? We are trying to understand the restrictions on the budget and how that will work. Realistically, I do not think that anyone on the panel would say that they think that we will have a fiscal framework in nine weeks’ time. Could we have hands up for that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

I hope so.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

Allan Faulds has touched on a point that I want to explore, which is the divergence in the Government’s position. We are told that economic growth is one of the Government’s and the First Minister’s key priorities, yet, at the same time, reference to economic growth has been removed from the document that we have in front of us.

I wonder whether that relates to some of the other issues that have been raised in evidence. The ALLIANCE’s submission says that there is an implementation gap between the policy objectives and reality. When the Government is pulling in one direction and the rhetoric is going in another, that makes me wonder what the purpose is. What Adam Boey described was a form of organisational discipline for the bureaucracy, so that it can drive towards a purpose, but if there is a mismatch between those two forms of language, is that not a core problem? Should there not be coherence across those areas?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Michael Marra

Councillor Hagmann, it is nine weeks until the budget announcement in Holyrood. How are the discussions going?