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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 1965 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Michael Marra

You started the evidence session by talking about the issue of leadership, Auditor General, and the comment in the report about NHS Tayside having

“Limited skills and capacity for leading and participating in the”

whole-system change programme really jumps out. You have said that the board is trying to bring in a single member of staff to do that work, but can you say more about where that capacity and that capability are missing? Is it in the IJBs, or is it in the central leadership? What is the deficit that the board is trying to make up?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Michael Marra

Okay. Surely, given this changing environment, with different leadership over different periods of time, we should not be losing sight of those recommendations. They came out in 2020, and the progress report, which came back in 2021, has been described to me as

“the worst report in Scottish public life”.

As the convener has pointed out, it showed local bodies in Dundee misleading the public about progress that had not been made. We had the oversight assurance group in 2021, which reported in 2023, and now we have the whole system change programme.

All of that leads me to ask this question: do we not need external leadership to actually deliver this? The current model of leadership is just not working, is it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Michael Marra

Is anybody reporting to the board on progress against those 51 recommendations in the report that was brought out? A lot of work went into that analysis. Are those things being reported on? I have to say that I cannot see any evidence that they are. They are being substituted by one programme after another, instead of someone saying, “This is the mission. We need to deliver it. How do we get there?” After all, we are now six years on.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Michael Marra

I want to stick with the issue of scope for a moment. Will the current scope of the whole system change programme meet the 51 recommendations of the Strang review?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

I will close by returning to the issue of public spending, which of course you comment on quite regularly. I am thinking about two of your reports: one entitled, “NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”, and another, published more recently, in November, which is entitled, “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”. The picture that both reports paint is of a Government that is unable to change services. There does not seem to be a process whereby it can deliver change and efficiency on the public spending side. If you are looking at a tripod of issues around tax and growth, but the Government is focused on the third leg—spending decisions—and it is not able to deliver on those, is it not a key issue of concern if that is its principal focus and you, as Auditor General, keep telling the Parliament that it is not able to deliver change and manage public spending effectively?

10:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

Returning to the mental health services side, I want to use that as an illustration of the Government’s inability to meet those broader targets. We have had report after report, including from yourselves, on such services, and the Government just seems to be unable to actually deliver change. What is the dysfunction that is resulting in that, when you tell us that that is the one factor that the Government identifies that it can use to control its massive budget black hole?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

So, you do not see that directly in the documents; you are describing what might be called an absence. Have you any sense, from the Government’s other work, that it understands that this is a problem, or do you feel that it is pushing the problem away for political convenience?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

I will maybe come back to the spending side of it. You also mentioned that such decisions would be supported by

“a more detailed assessment of the potential impact and timescales”

on taxation. Could you tell us a little more about what you mean by that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

Auditor General, your report says:

“The Scottish Government, through its fiscal publications, has not done enough to explain why the potential funds raised from tax policy are so notably different from the net contribution to the Scottish Budget, and how it intends to address this.”

Why do you think that is?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Michael Marra

I suppose a fairly typical criticism of Governments in general, and their approach to taxation in particular, is that they are often more interested in the harvest rather than in growth in the first place. They use tax to plug the gap in their spending plans rather than thinking about how it might support the sustainability of the sector.

Liz Smith touched on issues about opportunity in certain areas and on thinking about the future. From the Government’s documentation, and the work that it has carried out, have you a sense that it is sensitive to the impact that its own tax measures might have on the performance of sectors in Scotland that might be weaker?