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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1574 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

That is very useful. Fraser, will you reflect on some of Iain Nisbet’s comments? I can understand how the issues pertain to care and a national care service, but what about the health and wellbeing of a child who is not at risk? Do you see the challenge around protecting those rights in a national care service?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

I should declare an interest, convener, as a close family member is a practising social worker.

Pensions would not typically be included under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations, but the fact is that we are looking at thousands of social workers moving to a new body. Has the Government provided any clarity on the status of social work pensions? That question is for Tony Buchanan.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

What about the status of buildings, including the rentals for the places where all those people work? What would the relationship be in that respect with regard to councils?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

But you are not being asked to address directly the question whether children’s services should be integrated.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

CELCIS’s speciality is looked-after children. You have produced some fantastic work in that area, and I give credit to your staff for that. However, my concern in relation to that specialism is whether we can capture the breadth of children’s services that we have touched on in our questions. Is the fact that you have been commissioned to do this research a pointer to a bit of an inherent bias towards the care end of the spectrum rather than the breadth of children’s services?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

And will you draw in expertise around education, mental health and other areas?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

We are looking at a national care service, which is potentially most directly related to articles 9 and 16 of the UNCRC, which are about the protection of family life in relation to decisions that the state might make. I have a question about the breadth of the transfer of powers and your reflections on that.

We could say that social work and children’s services protect the rights in articles 26 to 29 and 32, on access to education, health and wellbeing. Given that a wide range of services are being transferred, are you concerned that some of those areas could be lost or neglected through an overbearing focus on care, albeit that it is incredibly important?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

You talked about prevention. The idea of prevention in relation to adult care services is analogous, but that would open up the national care service to issues around adult housing. Prevention for children seems to have been pulled into that position, but prevention for adults has not. I understand your “frameworky” comment, but do you have a view on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

Councillor Buchanan, is there a risk that children’s services could become defined by the idea of care rather than necessarily by work around prevention?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Michael Marra

[Inaudible.]—the list provided to the committee is not exhaustive, I think. It includes the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968, the Children Act 1975, the Foster Children (Scotland) Act 1984, the Adoption and Children (Scotland) Act 2007, the Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011, the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014, the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016 and the Age of Criminal Responsibility (Scotland) Act 2019. There is interaction with a very complex area of primary legislation. Is it possible to deal properly with that in secondary legislation?