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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 1574 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

On your point about putting the last-bed policy in place for 2023-24, is the funding for the policy continuing or has it expired?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

In the absence of any remedy, do you have any idea what will happen to those young people? You are going to lobby for a remedy, and I understand that and agree with you that England should change what it is doing, but if that remedy is not forthcoming, what happens to those young people?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

I recognise the difference between a young offenders institute and secure care and the difference in cost, but my question is about whether you are still working with that stable cost of £6,500 for a secure care placement after the legislation is passed. Is that correct? You do not see the allowance increasing. Tom McNamara, can you provide that clarity?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

The last-bed pilot scheme is about ensuring that there is emergency surge capacity. That is to ensure that, if there is a dispensation and a young person is sent to a secure care unit, there will be a space—that the place will not be full. However, the evidence that the Parliament has had relates to up to 50 per cent of the current cohort—it is not about one bed or the fact that the place is full; I am talking about financial sustainability, as I think that we all are, minister—but there is nothing in the financial memorandum to recognise the removal of that revenue from your policy intent. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Therefore, with regard to that reduction over time, that monitoring could include modelling?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Okay. That provides some assurance, minister.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

That is partly based on the evidence that we have heard that the sector relies on cross-border placement money to keep the lights on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Up to 50 per cent of placements are cross border.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

There are four centres, and I have evidence from two of them stating that they are reliant on that money. It is worth emphasising, minister, that your stated policy intent of reducing the number of or eliminating those people is not a marginal issue. There are concerns from across the committee for those young people—young people in England as well as those in Scotland—and their welfare. I understand your legal responsibility in that regard, but, on a human level, we all have great concern for the outcomes of those young people.

More generally, we are concerned about the fact that we have a sector that is entirely dependent on that money, yet I am not hearing a lot of evidence from you or your officials that that is being dealt with in the long run. There is talk about dealing with it in 2030. Let us hope that the meeting with agencies in June comes up with some answers, and that, when we see the second version of the financial memorandum, it is in a state that we can agree with.

Thank you for your evidence today. That brings to a close the public part of the meeting. We will take the rest of the agenda items in private.

12:02 Meeting continued in private until 12:17.