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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 760 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Will you also say a little about minority groups?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

The Cass review on gender identity services in England and Wales is on-going, but its interim report says:

“There has not been routine and consistent data collection ... which means it is not possible to accurately track the outcomes and pathways that children and young people take through the service.”

Given that it is the state’s duty to protect and safeguard children’s wellbeing, should a similar inquiry be conducted in Scotland, followed by more detailed data collection, to ensure that the bill will not have any unintended consequences?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Do you think that the numbers will increase with more GRCs coming through?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Is the Prison Service ready to provide that support if the increase happens?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You are absolutely right that it is already the case that transgender doctors do not have to inform the patient of their transgender status. As there is already a gap in the law, would it not make sense to address that issue now and bring balance between transgender rights and religious liberties? The bill is an opportunity—perhaps the prime opportunity—to bridge that gap at a time when proposed changes to the GRA would make it easier to transition and obtain a GRC. That may mean that the problem will become more widespread and have a greater impact on the faith communities and their right to practise their religions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Can I put the same question to Anthony Horan and Karen Hendry about the gap that is in the law right now and about the new legislation?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good afternoon, and thank you for your opening statements. As you will probably be aware, if someone wishes to choose the sex of their nurse or doctor, they are free to do so. For example, if a female goes to a doctor’s surgery to have a smear test done, she has the right to ask to have it done by a female doctor. If a doctor or nurse is transgender and a patient is not aware of that—as we have heard from many witnesses, there is no requirement for that information to be disclosed to the patient—that could interfere with their religious practices, whereby women are not allowed to be touched by men. That is of great importance to many people, especially members of the black, Asian and minority ethnic community.

I raised that concern last week. I must put this on the record and make it clear to everybody who is listening: at no time am I saying that the rights of trans people do not matter, or that religious rights do not matter. This is about creating a practical balance between two sensitive areas—rights and liberties. I am raising concerns that have been highlighted to me by many people.

I understand that the practice to which I am referring may not be the practice of every religion and may not be the practice of the religions that you represent. However, it would be great to hear from you, as representatives of your religious organisations, on whether the issue that I have raised is a concern for you or for women of faith, and on whether there are other concerns regarding the practical implications of self-ID that the committee might not have heard about before.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, panel, and thank you for your opening statements.

A freedom of information request has revealed that, as of 3 December 2021, 11 trans women were being held in the Scottish Prison Service and more than half were housed in the female estate. Why are the others not being housed in the female estate? Do they not have a GRC?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You said that one of the things that you take into consideration is declaration of a GRC. We know that the Scottish Prison Service’s gender identity and gender reassignment policy is currently under review and might well be revised to give priority status, as it were, to GRC holders. Those opposed to the bill believe that the removal of the medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria will make it significantly easier for prisoners to obtain a GRC, which means that the number of those who have a GRC and are therefore entitled to be held in the women’s estate will likely rise.

Let me be clear: this is about creating a balance between transgender-related rights and the safety and wellbeing of the female prison population and their protection from bad-faith actors. This is about being fair to all. Do you think that a fair way of reassuring female prisoners would be for the bill to be amended to ensure that the GRC is not effective in prison allocations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have one more follow-up question. You said that a GRC, if declared, would be a consideration. Would you take other things into account alongside that, or would you just look at the GRC?