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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 760 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, panel. Thank you for your opening statements and the evidence that you have provided. I will go a little bit more into what my colleague Maggie Chapman just talked about.

Some of the opposition to the GRA reform has focused on the potential impact on women and girls, particularly in relation to single-sex services and exceptions in the Equality Act 2010. The SHRC submission refers to the “Interdependence of human rights” and states that the rights of women and trans individuals “go hand in hand.”

Will you explain further what that means? Is it possible that the GRA reform will cause conflict between the rights of trans individuals and any other groups, such as religious groups?

I will go to Ian Duddy and Barbara Bolton first. They have talked about what the bill would not touch on.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You have said that more work needs to be done. Is that in line with the bill being introduced?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Basically, more work has to be done. With the bill having been introduced, has that been identified? I have mentioned that there could be more people coming forward, so we have to ensure the readiness of our systems and databases for that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Naomi Cunningham, can you touch on women of faith and on religion? You probably know that the committee has discussed that. How do we ensure that those women do not feel excluded, for example in a swimming pool changing room? Are we going backwards? Please stop me if I am not allowed to say this, but we heard in a private session that people may not want to go into changing rooms and may decide just to shop online in case someone else is there. How do we ensure that everyone is included and not excluded? Can you say a little about that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

We heard privately from one such organisation. I was thinking about the religious side of things—not just services but what happens when people use places and come outside. How do we make sure that everyone is included?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you. It is very important that we hear from those organisations to ensure that the bill includes and represents everyone in Scotland.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, panel. Thank you for your opening remarks and for the information that you have provided. In particular, Karon Monaghan was very knowledgeable in breaking down where a GRC applies and does not apply and the relationship between gender and sex.

My question follows Pam Duncan-Glancy’s point. We have heard, from people who are opposed to the bill, many concerns about self-exclusion from single-sex services. The witnesses have talked a bit about female representation on public boards and in sport, and you have heard the arguments about fairness in sport and a level playing field. Karon Monaghan and Naomi Cunningham also touched on the impact on minority groups and women of faith. May we hear a little more detail on those issues? What is the solution, especially when it comes to sport and women of faith? We must be mindful of not excluding anyone; we must ensure that no one out there feels excluded by the bill’s provisions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Convener, may we also hear from Sharon Cowan?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

We heard a lot from Naomi Cunningham and Karon Monaghan and I want to know whether Sharon Cowan thinks that there is a solution to the issue. Is there a happy medium that means that we do not exclude anyone? Can we ensure that everyone is included?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2022

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, David, and thank you for your opening statement. The Royal College of General Practitioners in Scotland submitted written evidence in which it talked about

“current IT systems which do not accommodate for transgender and non-binary patients in relation to referrals and screening. For example, a trans male cannot be referred for a cervical smear or to a gynaecology clinic if they are recorded as male in the practice database, despite still having female reproductive organs.”

With an anticipated inflation in the number of GRC applications, do you have any concerns about decoupling of the legal and medical aspects of gender reassignment?