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Good morning. I want to follow up on some of the themes that colleagues have raised, and especially Willie Rennie’s point about the need for people to have a wider understanding of the benefits of the work that you do and the need to communicate that across Scotland, because we know that there are similar projects in every part of the country.

In my area, I do a lot of work with Mark Breslin, who runs Barrhead Amateur Boxing Club. He is also a senior lecturer in the school of education at the University of Glasgow. Mark has done an academic study on activity in the area, which you might be familiar with, which is entitled, “Beyond the classroom: strengthening pupil engagement, attendance and belonging through alternative education and community partnerships”. Many of the themes that you are talking about can be recognised in his paper. It is good to see that there is robust academic evidence for the impact that such work has.

I do not know whether you have engaged with that research. Debbi is nodding, which is a good sign. Do you feel that such research is helpful in enabling the committee and its successor to understand how we can do better when it comes to funding and supporting such work on a national level?

That is true, but it is extremely valuable in quantifying and qualifying what we are talking about. I should have mentioned that the piece of work to which I referred was co-produced by Jesse Mitchell, who is principal teacher in health and wellbeing at St Luke’s high school in Barrhead.

We talk about alternatives to school, but those alternatives do not sit in isolation from school. You guys will work in tandem and in partnership with schools, which is encouraging.

Mark, do you have any reflections on that?

That was useful. Again, it will be for our successor committee to reflect on that issue and take it forward.

Convener, I am happy to share the academic paper that I referenced with the clerks so that it can be shared with other committee members. Given that it was co-produced by a principal teacher of St Luke’s high school, I should declare that I am a former pupil of the school.

That is a challenge. After all, you will want to spend every penny on delivery, because you know that it works, but you have to be able to evidence that, too. It is a bit of chicken-and-egg thing.

We have heard examples this morning from the east and the north-east of the country; Willie Rennie has talked about Fife; and I have talked about the west coast. This is happening in every corner of the country, and it is crucial that we pull all that evidence together so that we can take more of a national approach. That is my view.

Coming back to the academic partnership that you mentioned, Mark, I am interested in hearing about your work with RGU, with which you are closely aligned and associated. How much has the university been an anchor and support for you not only in resource terms but in helping you establish that evidence base?

Debbi, you mentioned the University of Edinburgh. Are you in the early days of that partnership? Has it been established for quite a while?

Dr Bloomer, do you have a view on whether we need to revisit much of the debate around the role of the chief education officer in local authorities, with a direct read-across to the curriculum?

That is helpful. There is a lot in there to reflect on, which will take us into the next parliamentary session. These are issues that clearly should be addressed, and it was interesting to hear the witnesses’ different perspectives.

12:15

I do not want to seem flippant, but that is the sense that I get when I talk to professionals: there is a balance of feeling frustration but also a sense of opportunity.

It was interesting to hear what you said about the tangential issues that sit around the CIC. When Mr Rennie, Mr Briggs and I were at the EIS manifesto launch, a contributor from the floor said, “If, as a primary teacher, I’m given another thematic week to deliver, I’m just gonnae go mad. I’m trying to engage in a curriculum improvement cycle, look at my Es and Os and do all that, and then I keep getting these thematic weeks.” Those weeks are supposed to enhance the experience of young people, but they actually clutter the landscape to some extent. Would you recognise that that is something that we need to look at in tandem with the CIC?

I will move the discussion on slightly into a different area; I may be about to open—or reopen—a can of worms. During the passage of the Education (Scotland) Act 2016, there was a wide discussion about the role of the chief education officer and statutory powers. However, those were not defined with regard to what further role the chief education officer might have in this area, for example. Without relitigating, if you like, much of that, I would be keen to get a sense of whether you think that there is a wider role for the chief education officer in this space at a local level. I am not asking you to define what that would be today, but should we be having that debate once again, in the light of wider curriculum improvement? I appreciate that the witnesses may take different views.

10:15

I dare say that that will be on the agenda for the Parliament in the next session, and perhaps for our successor committee. It is useful to have that on the record this morning.