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I begin by asking more broadly about structures. I hear what the minister says about the need for national standards, and there is a large degree of consensus around that. However, whatever way we look at it, the national care service involves big structural change. Does the minister feel that there is a risk of that structural change becoming an end in itself rather than being a means to a greater end?

Convener, I wonder whether I can put another quote to the minister. In its report on the financial memorandum, the Finance and Public Administration Committee said:

“The significant gaps highlighted throughout our report in combination with the Scottish Government’s approach to introducing the primary legislation prior to completion of the co-design process has frustrated the parliamentary scrutiny process.”

Given everything that I said in my previous question and the concerns of other parliamentary committees, does the minister recognise that there is an opportunity here to pause, get back round the table, listen to those concerns and try to address them before we move to the next stage of legislation?

I want to turn to some of the financial implications and the financial memorandum. Last week, we heard from Cathie Russell from Care Home Relatives Scotland and the social covenant steering group, who said:

“What worries me, to some extent, is that we hear figures such as the £500 million cost of the new structure—Audit Scotland thinks that it could be more than £1 billion—but we will not get one extra hour of care for that. None of that will be spent on the front line.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 13 December 2022; c 38.]

Can the minister explain why existing Government commitments on the reform of social care as listed in the financial memorandum were not included in the bill? Can you give an update on any progress that there has been on fulfilling those commitments?

The minister will hear no complaints from me if he is singing the praises of East Renfrewshire. He makes a fair point about the length of time for which integration has been part of the fabric of certain communities and the importance of trying to learn from that.

I turn briefly to the social work element of that, and the further consultation that the minister intends to undertake on children’s services and criminal justice social work. What are the minister’s intended timescales for that?

What was your rationale for giving a promise of co-design after the bill is passed rather than doing that during the preparation of the bill? Is it your view that co-design after the fact is better than co-design before legislation, and who decided that the bill should proceed in that manner?

Okay. That might be comparing apples to oranges.

I will move on slightly, and quote some of the evidence that we have heard. The minister said that he feels that he has adopted a logical process, but we heard the following:

“at the moment, it feels as though it is a one-size-fits-all system, and I do not think that that will work”.—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 25 October 2022; c 38.]

We heard that

“So much is left to secondary legislation and co-design that we do not feel that we have the detail ... to be able to comment”,

and that

“We are talking about a substantial bill on a national care service that has been introduced without clear detail”.—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 1 November 2022; c 2, 23.]

We heard that

“this bill does not deliver the changes that are required”,

and, finally, that

“It is like buying a house without ever having seen it or knowing know how many rooms it has or where it is located.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 15 November 2022; c 35, 39].

That was a cross-section of the evidence that we heard from legal experts, Common Weal, care providers, local authorities and trade unions. Those are very serious concerns about the way that this has been done. Would the minister like to comment on some of those quotes?

Does the minister not recognise that there is a principle here around decisions being taken as close to people as possible and the role of local government in doing that? He is right to say that he and I have both served on local authorities as councillors, as have other colleagues on the committee. I am keen to understand why he feels that there will be more accountability by virtue of 129 ���˿��� and the minister having that control as opposed to local councillors having it. Does he feel that local councillors are not accountable enough now and do not represent their constituents on these issues?

Good morning, panel. The first section in our briefing paper for the meeting is titled “General hopes and fears”. That is a broad theme, but I am keen to understand the concerns that people might have about how the bill has been structured and came to be.

Over our evidence sessions, we have heard significant concern about the bill being a piece of framework legislation and the detail being co-designed after the bill has been passed. I will quote Tanith Muller, chair of the Neurological Alliance of Scotland, who said:

“Scotland is being offered a new structure for care—but without blueprints, a schedule or a budget. We can’t tell if it will even stand up, much less that it will meet the care needs of people in Scotland. Ministers need to go back to the drawing board and show us all the plans that they have developed with people before they ask ���˿��� to legislate.”

I know that MND Scotland is a member of the Neurological Alliance, so I ask Susan Webster whether she shares some of those concerns, and to say what could have been done differently.

Susan, you have pre-empted my next question, which is on the consensus that came out of the Feeley review. Given the nature of a condition such as MND, would you have preferred to see more action being taken more quickly on some of the issues that were raised in the review, particularly on the workforce, non-residential care charges and support for people and their families?

Should there have been more co-design before the bill was introduced? What co-design would you like to see included in secondary legislation?