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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 985 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Katy Clark

Do you accept that, if it were decided to bring social work into the national care service, that would lead to a significant increase in tendering? That seems to be what you are saying.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Katy Clark

I will be brief.

Minister, I note that you said that you will write to the committee about what you call “ethical procurement”. However, do you not accept that commissioning is tendering, which leads to outsourcing and privatisation?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Katy Clark

I understood that that is what the minister said—he said that delegated legislation would come to the Parliament. I presume that that means that it would come to this committee. Regardless of whether it is this committee or another committee that considers it, there will be delegated legislation.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Katy Clark

I had not planned to ask about this. I am pursuing the point because of what the minister said. It might be something that we can pursue at a later date.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Is it not the case that, under the current legislation, there have been many occasions when there has been the kind of social work involvement that you have just spoken about at length?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Yes. It is a long-standing tradition. Obviously there has been a decade of massive cuts in the public sector, which is a resource issue, but the approach has worked well in the past. If sheriffs do not have the information, they will often ask for it to be provided and, if they do not feel that they have the relevant information, they will continue the case before they make any decision.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

I think that the matter will end up in the courts, because it is a legal issue. I understand that people think that the system does not work and that changes need to be made, but what the committee is looking at is the question whether it is these changes that will deliver. Sharon, do you wish to make any points?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

I put it to you that, in recent years, the major barrier to social workers being present in court to perform a professional role that they have performed for many decades now has been a lack of resource and cuts.

I do not want to take up too much time, but I want to briefly ask whether the witnesses have looked at the bill’s provisions in relation to the public safety test, which seems to be very poorly defined. Two of the witnesses have said that they want legislative change, because they feel that the threshold is too high and that, at the moment, people are being remanded when they should be getting bail. The issue, though, is whether this is the right legislative change. The concern is that things have been poorly defined in the drafting of the legislation, with a concept being used that has not previously been used in Scottish criminal law, and that there will be a lack of clarity about what that means. Will it mean that more or fewer people will get bail? Which kinds of individuals are more likely to get bail and which are not?

If you do not have a view on that question, you do not need to respond. Perhaps I could ask Keith Gardner, first of all, and then the other two witnesses whether they have looked at and have a view on that issue.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

That is fine. There is no mention of risk assessment in the bill, but I hear very clearly what you have said.

Suzanne, do you wish to make any points on the drafting of the legislation or whether this is, in fact, the change that is needed? Have you looked at that properly, or is it something that you would not necessarily have a view on? Is it the overriding policy implications that you are interested in?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 December 2022

Katy Clark

Thank you. That was helpful.