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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 August 2025
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Displaying 985 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

In the previous session, we heard evidence about the central marking of cases and the decisions that the Crown makes as to whether to oppose bail. In particular, there was a suggestion that procurators fiscal should be able to use their discretion more in the courts, rather than having to go up a managerial chain and impose central policy.

We will be meeting, and hearing evidence from, the Crown next week. I am interested in any thoughts that you have about changes that need to be made to practice or, indeed, process or policy in Crown decisions. You might feel that you do not have expertise in that and do not have an opinion.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

My final question is whether you support the inclusion of the public safety test in the bill. You spoke a little about that already. Would that be a helpful addition to the bill, or would it make no difference whatsoever and, possibly, create uncertainty? We have heard that it might lead to appeals as we tried to clarify what that provision would mean.

David Mackie, you made suggestions about additional provisions that could be put into the bill that might be of assistance. If there is going to be a test of that nature, do you have any suggestions about how we could define it?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I want to go back to the beginning of the bail process. We have heard about the importance of providing sufficient information to the court in relation to bail decisions, and we have heard that the social work provision that we would ideally want to be in place is often just not there. How does that interface with your work? The police are not social workers, obviously, but presumably you have to go some way down that path to ensure that there is sufficient information. Could you comment on not just the resource implications but the extent to which you are able to go down that path to ensure that there is a holistic understanding of the situation when the court is making a decision?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

My second question is about virtual custodies, which is an issue that we have been discussing over an extended period. The Scottish Government might come forward with firm proposals on that at a later date. Given what Joanne McMillan said and expressed so clearly about the importance of discussions—of speaking to all the parties, including the police, the social workers and the procurator fiscal—and the value of face-to-face discussion and talking, what are the circumstances in which you think that virtual custodies would work?

I will start with Joanne McMillan, because she has been talking about some of that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I do not know whether the Faculty of Advocates—

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I appreciate that we are running out of time. Is Stuart Munro able to add anything to that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I have two questions, if that is okay, convener. The first is on the public safety test in the bill. As we know, that is simply not defined, which could cause a great deal of problems. Have you given any thought to how that test could be defined? If we were to keep it in the bill, how could we define it? I may be putting you on the spot too much now, so I would be quite happy to hear from you afterwards in writing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you for that. Does Joanne McMillan have any thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

You might feel, again, that you are not able to answer my next question. We have heard about the importance of information being provided to the sheriff and the court. In the previous session, we were told that there was better provision of social workers in the courts back in the 1990s and early 2000s. That is quite anecdotal, so there might be great geographical differences in the levels of provision. Are you able to point us towards any evidence or work that has been done on the availability of that support in the courts? It is a resource issue rather than necessarily a legal issue. Do you have any experience of that?