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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

And then, of course, we will need to decipher what might be considered normal and regular and what might be considered concerning.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

I don’t know about that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Russell Findlay

On the point about juries being unable to reach a verdict, the most recent research—which is, I think, from New Zealand and dates from 2000—talks about a hung jury rate of 8.7 per cent, which is quite significant. If the bill does not include the ability to have a retrial, should there be some robust post-legislative scrutiny of the impact, which would require the Government to revisit that particular issue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

There was another point that I forgot to mention about the cabinet secretary’s letter in response to our questions about an awareness campaign. When the act first came into force, there was a publicity campaign to let people know what it did, which was apparently quite helpful. We asked whether there were plans to do something else. In response, the cabinet secretary said:

“We are currently undertaking insight gathering”.

There is further documentation from Scottish Government, on page 13 of paper 2, that also uses the term “insight gathering”. I wonder whether it is worth trying to establish whether there are any concrete plans, because I do not quite know what that means. It either seeks to do something or it does not. It is a small point.

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

That point was made during the evidence session, but it was not addressed in the letter from the Government, so it needs to be clarified. Whether Gill Imery would accept is another matter.

Criminal Justice Committee

Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

I found it. Just to give the context, page 13 includes the phrase

“insight gathering which could inform a future approach to communications.”

If they do not have any plans, just say so.

Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Yes. That is why I am surprised that the Crown Office, having heard that evidence, which was put in strong terms, has not engaged with us.

Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

Gill Imery spent two years producing the report on deaths in prison custody. There have been around 350 such deaths in the past decade, around half of which have been by suicide or drugs. There have been another 11 deaths since she gave evidence to us. Her report contains 26 recommendations and further advisory points but, two years later, only five of the recommendations have been implemented. Her main recommendation was on a new system to investigate deaths in custody but, crucially, she said that that would not even be necessary if the Crown Office fixed what she saw as failings in the fatal accident inquiry system. It is pretty clear from everything that we have heard that the Scottish Government and the justice agencies that are involved are not in agreement with her, but they do not seem willing to admit it. She told us that she feels frustrated but unsurprised. She told us that she feels “humoured” and “patronised”.

In response, we wrote to the relevant agencies—the Government, NHS Scotland and the Scottish Prison Service—and we now have their replies. If Gill Imery was despairing when she came here, I can only imagine how she will feel when she reads the letters. I ask myself whether those organisations actually listened to what she said to us—of course, they did, because she could not have been clearer. By ignoring her explicit concerns in their letters, they essentially confirm exactly what she said. It took another organisation—the Scottish Human Rights Commission, which saw her testimony and wrote to us unprompted—to address her concerns and sympathise with her.

It is notable that, despite the Crown Office being subject to severe criticism by Gill Imery in relation to FAIs, it did not choose to write to us to state its case. In response to a question that I put to her, she told me that she would be willing to extend her tenure on the deaths in custody review group. It is no surprise that the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs does not even address that specific point. Again, that confirms what Gill Imery told the committee.

To summarise, we are all entitled to feel frustrated, humoured and patronised. It seems to have been a monumental waste of time, effort and money. What kind of message does all of that send to the families of those who have died in custody?

Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

I will be brief as I know that we do not have a huge amount of time. We absolutely need to go back to Gill Imery in response to the letters. I made the point that the Crown Office chose not to engage with us despite the criticism of it. Despite all the thousands upon thousands of words, it boils down to the fact that she made one main recommendation and it has been ignored. We need the authorities to come clean on that. Are they intent on doing it, or are they not?

Criminal Justice Committee

Deaths in Prison Custody

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Russell Findlay

That is the main, fundamental point of the report, but she goes on to say that, as she sees it, if the fatal accident inquiry system was fixed, that would not be needed. That is central to everything.