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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Will the faculty boycott it?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Do you mean that there would be a disciplinary consequence, potentially?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Thank you. Last week, we heard from rape victims who waived their anonymity and who had mostly had a pretty terrible experience of the courts and the wider justice system. I asked them if they backed the proposed juryless rape trials, and their answers were quite surprising. One of them, Anisha Yaseen, said:

“I do not think that the proposal is a good idea. That would definitely have put me off. Had that been a thing before I reported what happened, I do not think I would have reported it.”

Sarah Ashby said:

“Having a single judge is not, in my opinion, the way to go.”

A third response, from Hannah Stakes, was a bit more nuanced. She said:

“There is something to be done on that, but I am concerned that, if a case was heard by a single judge and they were biased, there might be more reason to worry about a mistrial.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 17 January 2024; c 30.]

Their position is at odds with that of Rape Crisis Scotland. Sometimes, we fall into the trap of believing that all victims speak as one and that all experiences are universal. Are you surprised by the strong views that were expressed last week by those victims? Have you had any indication from behind-the-scenes discussions and lobbying about whether there is any movement from the Scottish Government on that particular issue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Good afternoon. The Scottish Solicitors Bar Association told us that its members will boycott any juryless rape trials, which it says would increase the risk of

“a miscarriage of justice, deliver no discernible benefits ... and undermine the public’s confidence in our criminal justice system.”

Incidentally, it is worth putting on record that members did not make any decision not to have witnesses from the SSBA here, and I am confident that we will continue to welcome its engagement.

I put the risk of a boycott to Lady Dorrian, who responded by saying that that was more an issue for us to deal with and not so much for her. However, I expect that it will very much become an issue for the senior judiciary, if they end up sitting in a court with no jurors and no defence lawyers. My questions are quite practical. Is a boycott the set position of the profession? Is that position universally held? What engagement has there been with the justice secretary or the Scottish Government more generally on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

I am sorry to interrupt. According to the SSBA, its members have pretty much universally said no. However, as your membership incorporates all of its members, there may be solicitors who may indeed take part.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

In addition, it was only in autumn last year that the new rules were brought in under which judges instruct jurors about rape myths, so we do not yet know what effect that has had.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Your research also analysed and assessed every rape case in England and Wales between 2007 and 2021, which was thousands of cases. No such research has taken place in Scotland.

You have proposed two possible reasons for the apparent difference in outcomes in the two different jurisdictions, one being that Scottish jurors may be more biased, the other being that it is due to differences in the legal systems. However, because of the lack of similar research in Scotland, we cannot properly get to the bottom of that.

My question is for all the witnesses. Does the lack of research into the Scottish system make it difficult for the committee to assess whether the measures in the bill are required? Anyone can answer that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

I have a quick question about research. Professor Thomas has helpfully torpedoed another myth, which is that you cannot speak to real jurors. Are there any moves for that to happen in Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

You have helpfully answered one of my other questions, so I will come in with one more quick question.

In England and Wales, judges have been able to direct juries about rape myths since 2006; that is effectively compulsory. However, it is only since autumn 2023 that that has begun to happen as a matter of routine in Scottish courts. The legal fraternity says that the practice needs to be allowed to bed in and that an assessment of its impact needs to take place—I think that you essentially agree with that.

Can you give us your thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Yes. Thank you.