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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

On that particular issue, which Pauline McNeill spoke about, that seems to be the case throughout the system, from the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service to the Crown and the judiciary.

The proposed juryless rape trials seem to be the most contentious issue across the board. Last week, we heard from Tony Lenehan KC, who said:

“The fact that someone sits on the bench and takes the oath is not a guarantee of an absence of hidden bias, or an absence of character defect; there are recent examples of people who have clearly smuggled character defects through the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland to end up on the bench.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 24 January 2024; c 66.]

He was referring to the case of a sheriff who trains and judges judges, and was appointed to do so by the First Minister, but was latterly convicted of a criminal offence. He also said in his evidence—I will summarise here—that certain sheriffs are known to be more likely to convict or to impose lighter or heavier sentences. That appears to be, according to Mr Lenehan, common knowledge among defence practitioners.

My question is, given those realities, is that not an argument against getting rid of juries?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

This is more of an observation and an extension of Mr Lenehan’s point. The senators’ submission is candid in accepting that the make-up of the senior judiciary is quite homogeneous, which might be an argument for maintaining juries.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

If it is half.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

I want to pick up on your earlier answer about the evolution and the developments that you have seen in your time on the bench and in the profession. The committee heard some evidence from rape complainers who all waived their anonymity because they were moved to do so because of—in most cases—the poor experiences that they suffered in the justice system.

I do not know whether either of you saw their evidence, but it is worth seeking out the transcript of the committee meeting. What they seem to want from lawyers on all sides—whether Crown prosecutors, defence solicitors or members of the judiciary—is clear communication and, essentially, basic standards of respect and courtesy.

Given that there have been so many horror stories spanning so many years—albeit that you say that things have improved significantly—why does that not already happen? Why do we need to legislate to ensure that trauma-informed practice becomes standard?

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

The bill creates a criminal offence for those who breach the new measure on anonymity. It struck me that one of the defences seems broad: that a person did not know that they were breaking the law. I do not think that that applies in many circumstances. Are you satisfied with that defence?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Victim Support Scotland seeks to have the right of anonymity given to child homicide victims, which is similar territory. Do you have any views on that? Have you looked at that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

I have a quick point for clarification. As the bill is drafted, someone under 18 could put their own experience on social media—they have that autonomy—and it could get 10 million or 20 million views. It could go viral, but if the BBC wanted to report it, it would have to go to court and get a sheriff to say that that was okay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

Incuriosity is almost a defence.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

In its warning, the College of Justice specifies section 29(2) of the Scotland Act 1998. Does that relate to trial by jury?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Russell Findlay

You now accept the provisions. What was the nature of the conversation with the Scottish Government? Was the concern premature, or was more explanation provided by the Scottish Government?

09:15