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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

To clarify, what is an “IDEC”?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

I do not agree with the cabinet secretary’s defining of this issue as being one of great magnitude, and certainly not when it is compared with the example that she just cited, which was the proposal to anonymise the child victims of murder. That is a whole different ball game and raises all sorts of issues related to freedom of speech and what is and is not in the public record.

I understand that the amendment would present practical difficulties for the judiciary. Having raised the issue on multiple occasions over the past 18 months or so, I also think that the Government has been talking to the judiciary. I do not think that we have had any formal feedback on that; it sounds as though it has all been fairly unofficial.

However, my position now is that, rather than trying to do the right thing but doing it badly, I will not press amendment 78 today. I do not intend to take up the cabinet secretary’s time if doing so would be fruitless or futile, but if there is scope for a brief discussion between stages 2 and 3 to see whether there is a way of bringing the matter back in an acceptable way, that would be very welcome.

Amendment 78, by agreement, withdrawn.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

Ah, it is A. I am sorry, I misheard that. I thought it was an E and I could not work it out.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

I am not wholly convinced by the argument that amendment 78 would create a whole lot of difficulties for justice and the administration of the courts because it is entirely discretionary and the Lord President or the sheriff principal would make a decision based on what is in front of them. That same argument also would not fly if a case was in a different level of the court system where, once again, that would be entirely discretionary.

I am encouraged, as I am sure that victims will be, to hear that there have been workshops and to hear about the various other bits of work that the cabinet secretary has referred to. That is good, but, if I am reading the cabinet secretary correctly, it sounds as if the judiciary do not like this one bit and might not be minded to proceed with something similar, even if it is non-legislative.

I have to decide whether to press amendment 78. Is there any scope for the cabinet secretary to give the idea some consideration between stages 2 and 3 and perhaps for a conversation in which some of those matters could be discussed in greater detail to see whether there is any common ground for some form of amendment that might attempt to go some way towards addressing this very important issue?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

I will just finish this up, then I will give way, if that is okay. The amendment requires the Lord President only to “have regard to” the same sheriff or judge sitting in both sets of proceedings. It does not compel him to do so.

For victims whose suffering is made worse by legal system abuse, amendment 78 is necessary, and I also think that it is fairly straightforward.

I am happy to give way.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

Absolutely. It is part of the difficulty being faced by victims and complainers in such cases. We have also seen in the civil courts how one of the parties—in some cases, the male abuser—can have access to funds and is able to pay for legal representation to pursue cases that might not, on the face of it, have much merit, simply to weaponise the process against the person with regard to whom they are facing criminal allegations. In those cases, the female victims often struggle to find the resources—whether it be legal aid or their own—to defend such actions, which might relate to, say, small claims or to divorce or child custody matters.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

Will the member take an intervention?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

Can you share it with us?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

On that point, I have been raising this directly with you, with the Government and with others for almost two years. As an MSP, I do not have the capacity to launch a consultation. The legislation in front of us is supposed to be a victims bill and if there had been a will from Government from the outset, perhaps some of that work on amending the legislation would have been done by the Government. The Government has done that in the past and we have seen quite dramatic amendments to other legislation, often at the last minute and without consultation. It seems to me that there is no real appetite for this.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Russell Findlay

If you would like, yes.