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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

That leads me directly to the next question. We have heard evidence from people, whether police officers or members of the public, that complaints that they have made have been miscategorised, in their opinion. There have been examples of criminal allegations not being reported to CAAPD, as they should have been, to the extent that Police Scotland’s website now advises people that they can report directly to CAAPD. As the head of the professional standards department—I do not know how long you have been in post—can you say whether those problems have been fixed? If not, are you confident that the bill will do that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I would like a quick clarification on something that Mr Speirs said about numbers of cases. I think that he said that the PIRC had found that 70 per cent or so had been handled satisfactorily by Police Scotland. That means that 30 per cent had not. He described that as a small number. However, three out of 10 being handled badly is not a good rate, is it?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

As Lady Elish said, both the previous chief constable and the new chief constable have said that Police Scotland considers itself to be institutionally racist, sexist and discriminatory, and much of what the bill does attempts to address that. Does the SPA see itself—and would it categorise itself—the same way?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

We have heard evidence from former police officers and members of the public of a lack of trust in Police Scotland on some occasions, and the SPA and Police Scotland work closely together, so it is not as though you are casually bandying information around with third parties, so I wonder whether it might be better that the lists are the responsibility of the Scottish Police Authority, as proposed in the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

The bill also proposes a duty of candour, which the SPA supports. However, from its submission, it is not clear whether the SPA supports the off-duty duty of candour, which is not in the bill. The submission suggests that you might support that. Can you clarify that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Good morning, panel. It is still morning—there are four minutes to go.

The bill comes with a financial memorandum, which initially gave costs of £1.4 million. The costs are now in the region of £5.8 million, with updated figures from Police Scotland. The Scottish Police Federation said that it will cost many multiples of even that later figure. Do you agree with the SPF’s assessment? Do you have more up-to-date figures, or are they constantly evolving as the bill progresses?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I have perhaps misunderstood the written submission. Are you saying that the public interest test would apply only in cases after the 12-month period had elapsed, if a matter arose, or would it also apply in any case within the 12-month window?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

There have been quite a few references to Lady Elish’s testimony to the committee last week, with the suggestion being that everything is pretty good. However, it is probably worth recalling that she produced a report that laid bare a dysfunctional system of police compliance and regulation and which made 111 recommendations, most of which require legislation to enact. In the absence of Martyn Evans, I ask Fiona McQueen whether the Scottish Police Authority considers itself to be institutionally racist, sexist and discriminatory.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Does the SPA have a view on whether the duty should apply to police staff and non-police officers?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Thank you. Ms McQueen, in your opening remarks, you talked about the importance of the process being transparent, efficient and fair for the public and police officers, but we have heard evidence from whistleblowers that the complaints process is sometimes, to use their words, “weaponised” and used against them. There was an example of a former female officer who proved sexist discrimination in an employment tribunal and she has been trapped in a process that is nine—going on 10—years long, which is hardly efficient or swift. That case is still with the SPA, as it happens. She has lost her career, she has lost her health and she has lost every penny that she had. She believes that the process is punishment, and I do not think that her case is unusual, because I have heard of many similar cases. Does the bill adequately protect whistleblowers, and will it do anything to change the culture that exists in the SPA and Police Scotland?