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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

I am sorry to interrupt again, but there is a contradiction between what you and Mr Gray are saying. As I understand it, Mr Gray is saying that NDAs are not compatible with and they have no place in Police Scotland.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

Are you exploring or have you explored the creation of a specialist provision within the framework that you already have?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

I have a quick follow-up question. If I understand correctly, in order to make radical changes to the structure, that would require political direction. On the basis of the structure as it is, do you have any thoughts about creating specialist legal provision to deal with what has been identified as a particular problem around domestic crimes?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

I declare an interest, in that I am married to a serving police officer.

I thank our witnesses for coming. You have suggested that pay makes up something like 80 per cent of the overall budget. The previous pay award ran until April of this year, and I think that talks in respect of a new award are on-going—I think that there are to be talks tomorrow, in fact. If the award is agreed any time soon, it still would not happen until much before the end of the year, or, possibly sometime next year. What stage are the talks at? How confident are you of agreement? Given that officers have faced the pandemic and are now facing COP26—the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—does that apparent delay not risk demoralising rank-and-file officers?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

I would like to ask about Police Scotland’s use of non-disclosure agreements, which, for people who are not aware of them, are used in the payment of compensation deals to keep the details of those pay-outs secret or confidential. It has been reported that the value of such claims has breached £1 million since 2013, and that raises serious questions about transparency and accountability for public money.

Just today, we heard about a successful tribunal claim that was brought by a female police officer called Rhona Malone. Her career was destroyed by what was described as a “boys’ club” culture. She had been offered a settlement on the condition that she signed a non-disclosure agreement. Mr Gray, are such agreements compatible with good governance, public confidence and accountability?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

Figures have been reported for how much the policing of COP26 is expected to cost. The most recent one that I have seen is ÂŁ250 million, which was reported at some point last year. To put that into perspective, it equates to a fifth of the entire Scottish policing annual budget. Can Police Scotland or the SPA tell us what the latest projection is?

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

Mr Gray, you said that non-disclosure agreements are mostly historical, but according to a media report this week, there have been seven in the past couple of years, all of which involved females—three officers, three civilians and one member of the public.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Russell Findlay

On a scale of one to 10, how confident are you that it will be agreed by the end of this year?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

I agree broadly with everything that has been said. As Jamie Greene noted, we are where we are. We were given only a partial picture a week ago and it took the committee agitating for some answers to reveal a much more complex picture. In future, if we can, we should ensure that the authorities with which we are dealing are a bit more forthcoming in respect of such issues, especially when we are on a precipice and there is not much that we can do other than note our concerns.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

We should also write to the inspectorate.