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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

I am happy to go first. There is a lot in both letters. Are we taking both at the same time?

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

I know that this is primarily about pensions but other issues are referred to. David Page mentions—this is near the top of his letter—the importance of being mindful of police officers’ physical, emotional and mental wellbeing. We have heard evidence of suicides among police officers and what appeared to be a lack of any meaningful attempt to get to the bottom of that. A particular phrase was used in an exchange between SPA and Police Scotland in response to the former asking the latter for some information. Police Scotland explored the issue and said:

“Based on the information available at that time, there was nothing to suggest that any of the recent cases were caused directly by the pressure of work.”

I do not think that that is the case; I think that the matter is worth revisiting. I am familiar with cases where it very much looks as though the pressure of work, the work environment and other issues around that were contributory factors. I wanted to put that on the record.

I will return to the pension issue. Will Kerr is one of two senior officers who chairs the operational priorities, capacity and resilience group, which is looking into the issue of the change in pension rights and the large numbers of officers who have left and might continue to do so. That particular officer has, ironically, just announced that he is leaving to take up a post with another police force, so it would be interesting to know who is taking his place on that group.

However, the main issue, on which I am sure that other colleagues will have plenty to say, is David Page’s very stark warning towards the end of his letter about the impact that the proposed budget will have on policing in Scotland. I will not read it out, but it is clearly extremely concerning. That comes just a couple of months after the chief constable told the SPA that the proposed budget would have a significant impact on the numbers of officers who would be serving communities.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

I have just one point to make. Obviously, this is one of the most serious subject areas in which the police are working. The letter touches on the point that Jamie Greene made about bigger budget concerns. Its writer acknowledges that, given the current financial circumstances, putting in more money will probably not address the issue and is probably not a feasible option. It will therefore be interesting to see in December what is proposed. We should just put that in the diary and give it a good look when it comes along.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

Subsequent to the correspondence from the minister, we have had some correspondence from the Edinburgh Bar Association. It might therefore be worthwhile, if we are writing to the minister on that issue, to incorporate some of the points that the EBA has made in response to her.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

One point that was made to us during our trip to the new facility in Maryhill was that each health board seems to have a different approach, so the SPS was frustrated that there was a lack of consistency. It will be interesting to make that point when we write to the CMO.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

For what it is worth, I think that it is quite a useful letter. We have heard that there have been problems with or objections to the change from some quarters, but the letter lays out the benefits quite clearly, including greater consistency and efficiency. It is quite reassuring.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

Seven months ago, the First Minister and the Minister for Drugs Policy attended a fire station. The headlines stated that firefighters were to start carrying naloxone. The announcement came with £90,000 of funding to train officers. The letter tells us that 1,226 members of staff have been trained, but it does not tell us how many are carrying naloxone. It also omits to make any reference to what I believe is some form of disagreement or dispute between the SFRS and the Fire Brigades Union about the issue.

There is perhaps a sense among some officers that there is a presumption that they should carry naloxone without any reassurances about liability for use or misuse and that those questions have been unanswered. Therefore, it would be useful to ask the SFRS what is actually happening. Is naloxone being used, and what are the issues, if any?

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

I agree with Rona Mackay that that is probably necessary, but that is the job of the Scottish Police Authority—or at least it is supposed to be. It should be asking those tough questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Russell Findlay

It seems to be more about early intervention.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Numbers and New Pension Arrangements

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Russell Findlay

When I read the Police Scotland letter from David Page, a paragraph jumped out at me and I underlined it. In relation to what it is fair to describe as an exodus of police officers, some of them with a great number of years of experience, he says that

“there is no impact to service delivery”.

When I turned to the letter from Calum Steele of the Scottish Police Federation, I found that, like me, he had quite strongly questioned that statement. His take on the claim by Mr Page that there is “no impact”, which is there for everyone to see, is that

“This is demonstrably untrue and verging on the deliberately disingenuous.”

Calum Steele goes on to point out that Police Scotland

“has the lowest number of police officers since 2008”

and concludes by saying of the challenges that Police Scotland faces that it cannot properly respond to them

“if it is not honest about them to itself, whilst simultaneously seeking to present a highly partial narrative about them to our parliamentarians.”

It is quite extraordinary that the general secretary of the SPF is saying, in effect, that Police Scotland is misleading us as ˿ and as a committee. It is vital that we get to the bottom of this and work out exactly what the pension issue and its effect on officer numbers is going to mean for policing in communities.