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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

I spoke to a prison officer who echoed much of what you said about the state of the facilities at Barlinnie. They speculated about how much money is currently being spent on it. You might have referred, in passing, to how much is being spent on keeping it functional. Do you have figures? Is that throwing good money after bad, or is there no real option and nothing else that can be done?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

When is that expected?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

I will quickly summarise what you have said about Kilmarnock prison. It is being transferred into public ownership. Currently, it is very well run. You believe that the decision was ideological.

Earlier this year, I had a conversation with some prison officers who represent staff at Kilmarnock. They said that it costs in the region of £20,000 per annum to keep a prisoner there, whereas it costs about £38,000 to keep a prisoner in the public estate. They also said that Serco had offered to build a 300-bed replacement facility as part of a continuation of the contract, but the Government rejected that. They could not understand the logic behind that.

Is the deal done, or is there any way of going back on it or revisiting it?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

You have referred to Audit Scotland and the cost of the transfer. Aside from staff wages, one cost that has been overlooked is pension costs. Are you able to quantify that in any way? Have you spoken to Audit Scotland directly about that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

This is probably impossible, but can you provide a figure?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

I have a question about your submission, which refers to a growing cohort of prisoners from serious organised crime groups. That brings about particular problems, not least the pressure that is brought to bear on staff to smuggle contraband, the risk of increased violence and the need to keep such prisoners apart. My understanding is that, at the moment, two organised crime groups are sent to two separate prisons, but your submission calls for consideration of

“an SOCG strategy for accommodation.”

What might that look like and what has been the SPS’s response to your suggestion?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

Just for clarification, what is MARSOC?

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

It is worth noting that the letter has been with us for almost two months but that we have been unable to refer to it until now. Its contents cover the latest twist in the malicious prosecution scandal. I was interested to read the confirmation that £15 million has been paid to the administrators but that that has been done with “no admission of liability” by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

Last week, we heard from the interim Crown Agent, John Logue, who said that the pay-outs now stand at £51 million. We should put it on the record that the £15 million mentioned in the letter is part of that £51 million rather than on top of it. Mr Logue also confirmed that the Scottish Government has effectively signed a blank cheque for any future pay-outs. Of course, that has happened against a background of warnings about extreme budget cuts being made across the justice system. It is also worth noting that we were told about the £15 million pay-out only because it had been reported by a newspaper.

The entire scandal has spanned the reigns of three Lord Advocates, starting with that of Frank Mulholland and moving on to that of James Wolffe and now that of Dorothy Bain. It has caused significant reputational damage to the Scottish justice system. However, there appears to be a strange and worrying lack of meaningful contrition, explanation and accountability. Should we consider calling the two previous Lord Advocates to give evidence about what has happened?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

Is that the first time that you have even considered the likelihood of having to close a facility?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Russell Findlay

Convener, may I also ask about Kilmarnock?