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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1780 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you, cabinet secretary. If that is the answer about breakfasts, I think that headteachers in schools across the country will be asking, “How many times do you want me to spend my PEF?”

I will move to my final question, if that is all right.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Of course.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

No problem at all, convener. When we were discussing breakfasts and free school meals, I was mindful that my colleague had a question on it, so that is fine.

My next question is about teachers in schools. It is fair to say that, in the same way that headteachers will be asking, “How many times do you want me to spend my PEF?”, local authorities will be asking, “How many times do you want us to spend our budget?”, given how tight it is.

In an answer to me on teacher numbers, the cabinet secretary said that, if the national average pupil teacher ratio rose above 13.7, she would look to claw back some funding from local authorities. The national average is currently 13.2, but local authorities have already said that they are fearful that they will have to give some money back, and 15 local authorities have not met their targets. Will the cabinet secretary clarify the position on that and set out in clear terms whether she expects any local authorities to have to return funds that have been allocated for that purpose?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that, but, in your answer to me, you said that, while the national average pupil teacher ratio remained below 13.7, you would not claw back funding. It is 13.2. Will local authorities have to give the money back or not?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

So, you will not look at the national ratio, which is what you said in your answer that you would do.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I agree with the cabinet secretary on that. Being in the position that she is in, what does she intend to do about it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

The Government is considering the reasons why the numbers fell, but are you also considering what other things local authorities might have had to use some of that money for in relation to education, such as free breakfasts, writing off school meal debt or meeting the needs of pupils with additional support needs? We should remember that the budget increases the resource for that by only £600,000. Are you looking at how else they might have had to spend that money?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I will take the theme of support for teachers a bit further and talk about empowerment and a bottom-up approach. I am sure that, during your engagement with teachers, you will have heard about their concern that decisions are outwith their control and are taken far away from them, rather than on the front line, but they are then expected to deliver on those decisions in difficult circumstances. How is the Government balancing top-down leadership with a more bottom-up approach to curriculum reform?