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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 May 2025
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Displaying 1769 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Senior Phase (Reform)

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning to our witnesses. Thank you for your responses so far, and for the information that you submitted in advance.

Professor Hayward, I made a note of your saying that “vision is everything”, and that one thing that keeps you up at night is the risk of losing a sense of purpose without that vision. Your report sets out a vision for

“an inclusive and highly regarded Qualifications and Assessment system that inspires learning”

and

“values the diverse achievements of every learner”.

The vision includes a bit more than that, but that will do for the purpose of this meeting. In the absence of any vision from the Scottish Government at this point, do you get any sense from its response so far—without waiting until December—that it understands and shares that vision?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

But the bill determines that it will, in effect, choose who it will engage.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In what ways will learners, practitioners and parents see a difference during the next five years?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Does it worry you that the people who have given evidence do not think that the structures that you have built into the bill will deliver that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I agree, but as it stands the bill says that qualifications Scotland will decide who to engage in the development of the charters.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you, convener, and good morning, cabinet secretary and officials.

We have heard a lot of evidence on the bill and I am sure that the cabinet secretary will have carefully watched, or listened to, most if not all of it. A number of people remain concerned that the bill still does not resolve some of the issues. For example, Ken Muir told the committee:

“it is probably not the case that the bill, as it is currently constituted, will drive a bottom-up approach.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 18 September 2024; c 9.]

The cabinet secretary spoke about the need to take people with her, but the evidence has suggested to us that people are not necessarily going with her on this. How would she respond to those comments?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is appreciated, and I think that most people will agree that standing still is not an option. The higher history stuff is an example of that. The Association of Directors of Education told us, and teachers also told us, that they do not think that the bill responds to their views in the way that you have suggested. That is something that you should reflect on.

If it is not about legislation and it is not always about structures, how would the Government characterise responsive leadership? How has it supported that and a good culture in education in the past 10 years?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

My question is in a similar vein. The Government has laid quite a lot of responsibility for fixing some of the issues with the qualifications body and the wider education landscape on the charters. How will the Government ensure that the charters are sufficiently ambitious?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I do not think that that would be an unfair fear.

We have also heard evidence, including from Connect, that there is no explicit role for parents. Indeed, the children’s commissioner raised that issue last week with regard to the role of children and mechanisms for engaging children in the process. There are concerns that there is not enough in the bill to protect relevant interests in the development of the charters, and I would like a further response on that.

In the interests of time, I will ask my other question. If the new body does not meet the expectations that are set out in the charters, what can anyone do about it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

It is also the point that Ken Muir made when he said that the bill, as drafted, does not yet give the “bottom-up approach” that is needed to do what the cabinet secretary wants. Do you agree with that?