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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 2015 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 19 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you for allowing me to ask this, convener. It has just occurred to me that what has been described feels like people being project managers in their own lives. I note Betty Stone鈥檚 point about having to hold a business meeting to get things sorted. Is there anyone in either the local authority or a third sector organisation that could fulfil that role? I get the point about the warm handover. We absolutely have to do that, and I take Kirsty McKechnie鈥檚 point about all the different agencies, but is there anyone in the statutory services that you think could help by fulfilling that co-ordinating role?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. Colin Macfarlane, do you have anything to add?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

If that is okay, convener.

I am keen to know what the Equality and Human Rights Commission has learned from similar organisations in other countries where self-declaration has already happened. In some cases, that has been the case for a number of years. What can you tell us about the use of self-ID internationally鈥攐r anything else鈥攖hat you have learned from your work with partners? Do you have evidence that you can share with us now that can speak to the impact of self-declaration on trans people, and the impact of self-declaration on women?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In all that work, have you got any evidence of abuse of the self-ID system?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In looking at those broader implications, would you say that you have not found any evidence of a negative impact?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Can you say something about some of the legal considerations that you used in changing your view?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I have one more question on this area. I will keep the international question for later.

In your evidence, you have set out why you support change, and you note that just now, trans people can, without a gender recognition certificate, socially transition. Can you set out what difference it makes for a trans person to have a gender recognition certificate, what rights it would secure that the trans person otherwise would not have, and why those are important?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the witnesses for their really helpful answers so far.

I will touch a bit more on the international evidence. In your written evidence, all of you note what is happening in other countries that have moved to a self-identification model. From those international examples, what can you tell us about the impact of such a move? Specifically, how has it affected trans people in those countries, and how has it affected single-sex spaces? Have you seen any data or evidence that suggests that there has been abuse of the self-ID system in the countries where it has been implemented?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that helpful answer. At the moment, anyone who has a gender recognition certificate is protected by the gender recognition aspect of the 2010 act, but that also protects a wider group of people who do not have a gender recognition certificate. People in that broader group have rights that are afforded to people whether or not they have a GRC. What is the legal effect of a GRC? How do you view the relationship between GRCs and the 2010 act? Are you aware of any legal cases about the use of single-sex spaces where the possession of a gender recognition certificate was a factor in determining access or exclusion?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee (Hybrid)

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I have a short supplementary question. We have heard evidence that trans people feel that the bill has been one of the most consulted-on pieces of legislation ever and that the length of time for which the process has gone on has not helped the discourse that has been described, for anyone. How do we square that situation with the need to get the additional assurances and legal advice that you have said are required?