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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 2015 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes, we will come to the other witnesses shortly.

I should have asked this when I had my turn a minute ago, but the question has just occurred to me, so forgive me for going back to what I already asked about.

Do you expect the information that you give out on the consequences of a gender recognition certificate to change significantly if the legislation is passed, or would it continue to be the same kind of information that you give out on the effect of a GRC now?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. Could you characterise for us the experience of trans people living in prison? I appreciate that the numbers are very small. Can you describe their experience and the experience of other women who are sharing the prison estate with trans people? How is that going so far?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is ideal. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

On that point, is there a need for the bill to include that offence, or is it already an offence under other legislation? Do you understand why it is included in the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. Can people who are currently in your care make statutory declarations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I would appreciate that. We know that you are currently reviewing the policy. Thank you for setting that out in such detail.

Throughout the course of our evidence, but last week in particular, we have heard about some undesirable circumstances that have arisen in prisons elsewhere in the UK. Are you able to say why that has happened elsewhere? We have not heard that there are similar circumstances in Scotland. If there are, it would be good to hear about those. Why is the position in the Ministry of Justice different from what is happening in Scotland just now?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good afternoon to the panel. Thank you for your answers to the questions so far and for the information that you submitted in advance, both of which have been really helpful. I have a couple of follow-on points from what we have heard.

Some of you have said that the reflection period is remarkably short for a decision of such magnitude鈥擨 think that that is specifically how it was put. However, we have heard a lot from LGBT people about how applying for a gender recognition certificate is usually the end, rather than the beginning, of a process for them, and that they will have been thinking about it for a significant period of time, so much so that I think that Denmark鈥擟hris Ringland gave it as an example鈥攊s one of the countries considering no longer having that period. I will be corrected on the record if I am wrong on that, but I think that Denmark is one of those countries.

What is your response to LGBT people who say that applying for a GRC is the end of the process and that they have already spent a lot of time thinking about whether they want to change their gender?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Do other panel members have any comments on the time period?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I share your concerns about the suicide rates. The poor health outcomes for trans people across Scotland and the United Kingdom in general are a concern for us all. I do not know that the bill is the place to address that. Can you see any other routes to addressing that, so that we can work with those who are not captured by the current process, such as those who are not gender dysphoric? Is there another way to make both work together?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

Karen Hendry, your opening comments were really powerful, particularly in relation to the impact on women and the Integrity group of people that you described. We have heard in previous discussions, and also today, some worries around bad actors. You were strong in your view on that. Can you tell us how you reached that view and what you think of the issue of bad-faith actors in relation to the bill?