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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 2015 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning. Thank you for your answers to the questions so far, Professor Sullivan, and I thank both panellists for the evidence that they have given ahead of today.

My first question is for Professor Sullivan and it is on data. What have you learned from your research colleagues in parts of the world where self-identification has been in place for some years? What impact have they found that there has been on data collection?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

My next question is for both witnesses. Professor Sullivan already touched on this when she mentioned section 22 of the 2004 act. What are your views on how the proposed changes would affect single-sex spaces?

Some people have said that our laws are different and not comparable with those in other parts of the world, because of section 22, on protected information. What is your understanding of the impact of the proposed changes on section 22, and how other countries have handled similar situations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Are you able to comment on section 22 of the 2004 act in particular?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is fine.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Can I just check: did you say that someone would not contravene section 22 by collecting data on sex?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. Would any proposals in the current draft bill amend section 22 in any way, or would it remain as you have just described?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good afternoon to the panel. Thank you for the evidence that you have given so far and the information that you submitted in advance, which we found incredibly helpful.

A lot of my questions have already been covered, with the exception of a couple, so I will focus on them. You have touched on this, but can you tell us, from experience elsewhere, whether there are any countries that have monitored the impact of self-identification on the use of single-sex spaces?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the ability to withhold the fact that someone has a gender recognition certificate, as it is protected information, be affected by the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you both for your answers.

I want to move on to talk about what we have heard already, which is the interdependence of human rights. I wonder if the SHRC could comment. We have heard from some people who have given evidence to the committee that there are women who are self-excluding from services and public spaces, such as toilets and changing rooms. That self-exclusion itself is significant enough to be proportionate and meet the test that you have set to determine that changes may be needed.

Can you tell us about your understanding of that behaviour and how it relates to this particular piece of legislation? I very strongly take the point that we must refer specifically to the legislation that is in front of us, as opposed to anything else.