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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 5744 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

I notice that we are at time, but I would be grateful if you would stay with us for a little bit longer. I have a couple more questions that I am keen to ask, and the discussion has been useful for the committee.

My first question is on priorities. Several witnesses have asked for clarity on how developers and decision makers should balance or prioritise the four priorities that are set out in the national spatial strategy, the six spatial principles, and the development priorities that are set out in the five action areas and individual national planning policies. We took oral evidence from Christina Gaiger from the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland, who argued:

“the document covers a huge amount of ground, and because not everything can sit in one place, we need a hierarchy ... there needs to be some sort of primacy amongst these policies to help people understand where the priorities themselves lie.”—[Official Report, Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, 25 January 2022; c 11.]

Do you intend to take forward the idea of a hierarchy?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

I am new in Parliament, but my sense of the process is that we are considering a draft, whereas in other cases, scrutiny takes place once the Government has done its consultation work.

I ask my next question on behalf not only of the committee, but of stakeholders who are concerned about the process. I would love to hear from you an outline of the next steps in the process after your consultation closes at the end of March. At what point will the Scottish Parliament be able to engage in scrutiny of the revisions of NPF4? Can you give the committee an assurance that there will be time for those revisions to be scrutinised? For example, when secondary legislation is introduced, Parliament is given 40 days for scrutiny.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

It is exciting that so many people across Scotland from so many sectors are engaging with the process. The committee and I share your view that the approach has the potential to transform planning.

I think that Fiona Simpson used the word “proposal”. Once the document moves from a draft to a proposal, and once you have taken on board all the perspectives—I appreciate that you are doing all that listening—that might change some of the language, which will involve thinking through the detail. After that, when will the committee and other stakeholders have an opportunity to review and scrutinise that and give feedback?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you for that clarity.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Before I bring in Willie Coffey, I will bring in Meghan Gallacher again, as we have a bit of housekeeping to tidy up.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you. That is welcome.

Graeme Dey has a supplementary question.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you, minister. It is heartening to have heard your comments, which picked up on a number of issues that have come up for the committee.

I have a number of questions, so I will start, then open up the session to colleagues. My first few questions are about the NPF4 process. I understand that it arises from planning legislation, but NPF2 and NPF3, before they were introduced in Parliament, were subject to considerably more public scrutiny than the draft NPF4. Why was a similar approach not taken to NPF4?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you for that response. As a Highlands and Islands MSP, I really appreciate your acknowledgement that there will be different approaches.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4

Meeting date: 22 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

I do not want to open up a discussion, but I find it interesting that you have linked the NPF4 with the sustainable development goals although no one has brought that up in any of our evidence sessions. That is sitting there. There are 17 important internationally acknowledged goals, and they seem to underpin what you are trying to do with NPF4.

I will move on. The draft NPF4 makes no direct mention—except perhaps within the sustainable development goals—of the needs of women, children or disabled people, and it does not mention how the planning system can help to remove barriers to their use and enjoyment of the built environment. Fiona Simpson said that there is going to be an equalities round table. Can you tell us more about how you might remedy that oversight?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Ariane Burgess

Section 8 states that a relevant authority must consult on a draft plan and “have regard” to any responses. I would like to hear your ideas on how public bodies could ensure meaningful participation in the creation of their plan, especially from food workers—Jayne Jones touched on that—and those with lived experience of food-related issues. I would also appreciate hearing your views on whether it would help to have an independent oversight body set up before the plans are drafted to support public bodies to conduct the process of meaningful participation and engagement.