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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 August 2025
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Displaying 5744 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Accounts Commission Local Government and Financial Overview Reports

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

Carol Calder, I noticed that you wanted to come in a few minutes ago. Do you want to pick up on a theme that we were talking about earlier?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Accounts Commission Local Government and Financial Overview Reports

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

I have another quick question about ring fencing and drip-feed funding. I am keen to hear your views on lump-sum funding versus drip-feed funding. The issue is coming up again. I am aware that some smaller local authorities in particular feel the burden on officers’ time of continuous funding allocations throughout the year from the Scottish Government, and feel the burden in areas that involve significant statutory duties and ring fencing, such as education. What impact could larger start-of-year lump-sum funding have on local authorities’ ability to plan effectively?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

Thank you.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

How does the proposed SI relate to the common framework on plant health? For example, are the decision-making fora and processes established by the common framework being used for import checks on plant products, and will they be used for the annual review of the frequency of checks?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

My question is directed, first, at Robbie Marsland and then, if there is time, at Kirsty Jenkins.

The submission from the League Against Cruel Sports states your organisation’s belief that

“the proposed licensing scheme will simply create a new loophole which will still allow for traditional”

fox

“hunting to take place.”

Can you please explain that? Why would being allowed to use more than two dogs allow traditional fox hunts to continue whereas a hard limit of two dogs maximum would effectively end the practice?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

Last week, I had a conversation with a shepherd who works in the Borders. He said that he loses lambs, so I asked him what he did when he starts to lose them. He said that he monitors the fields where it is happening, and he noted that the fox tends to take one lamb from a pair of twins. He described the method that he uses if predation is frequent. He said that mounted hunts are not an effective form of fox control. I asked what he did instead, and he said that they bring in a marksman who does lamping and sits out on the land overnight. That tackles the situation.

It was illuminating to hear what you said at the beginning of the evidence session about the shift from mounted hunts being a sport to their being a form of pest control. The shepherd told me that he knows people who participate in mounted hunts on quad bikes and, from talking to them as well as people who do mounted hunts on horseback, he said that it is a day out for the lads; it is not really about pest control.

Why are we going down the road of saying that people can use dogs when those who work in the sector say that that is not an effective form of control? They say that using a marksman and sitting out is an effective and humane form of control. What are your thoughts on that?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

I have a question that follows on from Jim Fairlie’s question. I find myself quite confused every time that he brings up the issue of flushing to guns and says that the issue is not the number of dogs but the number of guns. However, I do not think that there is a legal limit on the number of guns—at this point, you can have as many guns as you want. That is not—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

At the moment, is it legal to have more than two guns? Could you have 10 guns?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

Mike Flynn started to talk about this issue a little. Last week, we spoke to Barrie Wade from the National Working Terrier Federation, and he stated:

“The point of a terrier being below ground is not to fight with the fox, but to bark at him and discourage him from staying below ground.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 8 June 2022; c 16.]

He also explained to my colleague Mercedes Villalba that, in certain circumstances, it would be a welfare issue to send only one dog under ground, because that would not motivate the fox to come up and the dog might stay there too long.

However, that concern for animal welfare does not sit well with other descriptions of terrier work that I have heard. Last week, I was talking to a shepherd, who told me that, when he was returning from work, he encountered a hunt and saw a terrier with half its face torn off after it had been sent down to find the fox. I am also aware of the case in Angus last month in which a gamekeeper was taken to court after his dogs were found to be seriously disfigured from fighting foxes and badgers, although he claimed that the dogs had been injured while carrying out legitimate ratting and foxing duties.

Apart from the impact on the dog, I would like to hear more about the animal welfare implications for foxes and mink. Can the panel give us information on the welfare impacts of terrier work and your views on exception 5? Perhaps Mike Flynn would like to pick that up, because he had started to comment.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Ariane Burgess

I will direct my question to Robbie Marsland, after which others may come in. I ask for clarification. The written evidence that was received by the committee includes many statements that the bill will limit the efficacy of so-called “pest control”, but I thought that the main substance of the bill—the offences in sections 1 and 2—relates to hunting with dogs in circumstances that are already illegal. Will you clarify what you believe is the intention of the bill and why it is necessary?