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Thank you, convener, and good morning, colleagues. I welcome the committee’s inquiry and the opportunity today to set out the range of actions that the Government is taking to advance equality and make the operation of the public sector equality duty and the Scotland-specific duties as effective as possible. The importance of such issues is highlighted at a time when efforts to advance equality, diversity and inclusion are under threat in many parts of the world. Now more than ever, Scotland must be a leader in demonstrating our commitment to continuing progress towards equality.

I want to make clear my commitment to using all measures to ensure that public authorities in Scotland properly embed equality and human rights into their delivery, with a clear focus on advancing equality, tackling discrimination and progressing the realisation of rights. That means using all available levers, which will involve both regulatory and non-regulatory change, and providing active and visible leadership. As Audit Scotland noted in evidence to the committee,

“The PSED on its own obviously cannot deliver everything”.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 4 March 2025; c 29.]

I agree, and it is notable that the Scotland-specific duties are one of the few examples of equality legislation being devolved to the Parliament.

The Government will publish its mainstreaming equality and human rights strategy later this year, and its evidence-based framework sets out six drivers of change that we expect public authorities to use to direct their equality and human rights mainstreaming. Regulatory change is one such driver. The PSED and the Scotland-specific duties are important contributors to the change that the Government wants, but I recognise that there is some frustration among stakeholders about their effectiveness and impact. I recognise, too, that public authorities in Scotland are already doing good work to advance equality, but we have a collective responsibility to make our actions more effective.

I will set out my priorities in the areas where we are making good progress. I recognise the role of visible leadership from Government in order to drive change, so I have prioritised providing personal leadership on the PSED, both with my ministerial colleagues and in a series of meetings with public authorities. Those meetings have included the Scottish councils equality network, the non-departmental public bodies equality forum and more than 100 duty bearers whom I have met to communicate my expectations and ambition in setting equality outcomes. In all those meetings, I am raising the profile of the public sector equality duty, pushing for better equality impact assessments and stressing our collective responsibility to improve our equality framework.

However, we recognise that there remain systemic and structural barriers to equality mainstreaming, and the Government will publish its equality outcomes for 2025 to 2029 next month. They will deliberately focus on more effective impact assessment, better use of equality data and evidence, and application of lived experience as drivers of system change, as all those things are critical to generating lasting impact.

It is clear that there remains more work to do to build the competence of public authorities to effectively apply the public sector equality duty. We have commissioned the development of new inclusive communications tools and training, which will be delivered later in the year for the Scottish Government and other public authorities. That responds directly to calls from public bodies for more practical support and guidance that is informed by lived experience. To support the mainstreaming strategy, a toolkit of practical advice and support is being developed collaboratively with stakeholders. We have also been working closely with the Equality and Human Rights Commission on a range of projects, including learning sessions during our recent development academy week and a series of round-table meetings on outcome setting.

Looking ahead, we will set out by December this year how we plan to continue to improve the operation of the public sector equality duty in Scotland under regulation 12 of the Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties) Regulations 2011, which relate to Scotland-specific duties, and I will consider the findings of your inquiry carefully when preparing that report. I look forward to a productive discussion on how we can make our equality regulations more effective and collectively create the society that we all wish to see.

Thank you for that question. You have raised a very interesting point. You and I know that, whenever debates take place, a variety of organisations circulate briefings to all ���˿���. As far as I am aware, that is standard practice.

On the issue regarding the legalities, I want to make full use of my team so that we get the position absolutely right. I will bring in Cat McMeeken on that issue.

I have met BEMIS several times as a strategic partner of the Scottish Government; indeed, prior to my being in this role, the Scottish Government worked with it effectively for many years, and we will continue to do so. We really value its work.

However, I am sorry to hear that it takes that view, and I do not agree with its assessment. I think that the Scottish Government has been very clear about our obligations under the Equality Act 2010 and, of course, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. We are very clear that one size does not fit all; indeed, if we thought that it did, the approach to anti-racism for racially minoritised communities would fail to deliver.

As you have said, the racialised outcomes are not experienced uniformly, and any effective interventions that we make have to be evidence based and take specific experiences into account. In your previous session, one of the EHRC witnesses raised the issue of Gypsy and Traveller communities; we have an action plan to drive positive change and tackle inequality for those communities across Scotland. We have put our money where our mouth is, with over £15 million having been—or committed to be—spent between 2021-22 and the recent 2024-25 budget, and there are loads of local projects on cultural aspects specifically but also on accommodation in six local authority areas.

We are clear that we work to the definition of race in the Equality Act 2010. As a Government, we do not exclude or include specific minorities when we talk about communities that experience racism or are racialised.

I recognise that evidence. That is exactly why—as I shared with the committee—Communication Inclusion People and Disability Equality Scotland are going to lead on this work. I hope that they will provide the work that a lot of local authorities are probably trying to do at their own level. This work will provide consistency, and I hope that it will be an extensive resource bank that can provide good practice and will be there for people to pick up and use. There will be a bit of an economy of scale, but it will also help with providing consistency so that, from one end of Scotland to the other, everybody gets the same service.

I heard previous witnesses say that what we were proposing was nothing new, because public authorities already have a duty to make reasonable adjustments. I listened very carefully to those comments and I thought that they were interesting.

However, there are limits with the reasonable adjustments approach. Equality law sets out that reasonable adjustments are applicable only to disabled people. The existing regulations on accessible communications and publications are important, but we want to help public authorities to address multiple communication barriers, as far as that is possible within devolved powers.

Part of my thinking was that the reasonable adjustments approach is not enough because that approach concerns only one protected characteristic, whereas taking the revised approach encompasses everybody.

Thank you for that, Maggie. You will be well aware of my years in education. I still feel very passionate about children in particular, but I include neurodivergent adults, autistic adults and dyslexic adults as well.

What you describe is heartbreaking, and we should absolutely be doing better. I would argue that we are, and that those issues are being taken very seriously.

I outlined to the committee the approach of getting portfolios to speak to each other. In the particular case that you raise, there are clear correlations with other areas. Cross-working needs to happen between, for example, the health budget, which is substantial, and education. Those are just two areas—there will be others. Housing will come into it, as will social care.

The challenge for all of us, as elected members with portfolio responsibilities, is that we have a duty not only to take care of our own patch but to recognise—as you alluded to in your question—that a decision in one portfolio area that is taken with the best of intentions could have an unintended consequence, and deprive somebody of a service, in another area. In addition, there are areas in which duplication can happen.

I have highlighted some of the work that I am doing—for instance, I met with representatives of the Scottish councils’ equality network. For a minister to meet with those folk, who are working incredibly hard at local authority level, has never been done before; I brought together all 32 local authorities to do that. That should give you an indication that I am trying to get to the heart of our public services—in that case, our local authorities, which are direct providers of many of the services to the folks you mention.

The Scottish Government is taking those steps to build that competence and capability across the public sector. In addition, the online equality and human rights mainstreaming strategy toolkit will be published later this year. That will provide resources for officials across the public sector to increase their competence in equality, inclusion and human rights. Those resources will include guidance, checklists, training materials and best practice examples. The content is being developed by working groups, with representatives from key stakeholders, and the aim is to support policy officials by setting out pragmatic steps that they can take to support their mainstreaming journey.

We are also moving forward in building our capacity in inclusive communications, and we are committed to embedding that across our public services. I know that I am due another visit to the committee with regard to our public sector equality duty, so we will be able to go into that in further detail.

I hope that that gives you an indication that there is visible leadership in this area, not only in ensuring that we have different ways of working but in empowering officials. Those officials may be working in local authorities, as in the example that I gave, but the approach applies equally to those in the third sector; I mentioned my extensive meeting with duty bearers, for instance. We need to provide people with the support that they need to do that work. We cannot simply say, “This is what I expect”, because people will come back and say, “Well, how am I meant to do that? Where are the resources, and where is the support?” I think that I have given a reasonable account of how we are doing that.

It is always a bit odd when something is read out—it sounds quite stark. I do not agree that I was not across the detail. However, you will understand that each portfolio has a specialism and that, although I would be expected to have an overarching knowledge, I do not think that it would be reasonable to expect the equalities minister to have an in-depth knowledge of each individual portfolio area. I think that that is only reasonable, given that each area is highly specialist and extensive.

On rural proofing, rural considerations are mainstreamed in the Scottish Government, so, as I have said, good policy making should already include those. As I said in earlier responses, the Scottish Government is in the process of introducing a new and systematic approach, which is called the rural assessment toolkit and which should further aid the greater focus that is required to be applied to the unique needs of rural communities and businesses. As I have said, the toolkit will support civil servants to understand the unique characteristics, challenges and opportunities.

A key principle of the successful development of rural policy is to have meaningful engagement with rural stakeholders and communities at an early stage in the policy development process in order to consider how those stakeholders can actually shape that policy. The challenge for us will be to ensure that their evidence is visible within the policy. As part of the support and challenge, that is where I can come in to track that voice. We have spoken about that before, and Tess White will know that I am committed to ensuring that, as part of that transparency process, the stakeholders and people that we hear from can see that when we produce our documents.

Tess White will also be aware that many voices come to the table and many representations are made. Ministers and cabinet secretaries have the right to take on board everything that they hear before they make decisions. They are best placed to do that.

I was talking about the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and the Islands. That meeting is coming up, and if there is anything that Tess White—

Yes, I am happy to do that. The equality and human rights budget advisory group makes a significant contribution in helping us to achieve our ambition for Scotland to be a global leader in equality and human rights. We are hugely grateful for its guidance, leadership and recommendations, which we continue to progress, including in our approach to this year’s EFSBS. As is noted in the letter that I sent to the committee last week,

“Out of the 22 actions, 9 have been completed and 12 are in progress, with one yet to get underway as it is contingent upon the completion of another action.”

That included undertaking a structured review of the 2024-25 EFSBS and discussing the findings with the group, agreeing—in partnership with EHRBAG—an approach to this year's EFSBS and implementing improvements to budget guidance by providing portfolios with a handbook and better integration with the programme for government.

Yes—if you could just give me a wee second, because there is a lot of information that I want to make sure that I have here.

Can you just repeat the last bit of your question for me?