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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 December 2025
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Displaying 760 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

My preconception is that the minimum number should be used to fulfil what is needed across the space of land, depending on its size and the issue at hand. I am not able to say what that number would be in the multitude of possible scenarios. The minimum number should be used to do the job in hand.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

We have a financial memorandum, which was published with the bill. On the basis of that, and given the organisation鈥檚 experience of administering similar schemes, NatureScot has assured us that it has sufficient resources to develop and administer the scheme.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Sorry, convener鈥擨 did not realise that Hugh Dignon was trying to come in there.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

We have to bother to distinguish because we are trying to make something work that has not worked up to now. It is incumbent on us to be specific about the circumstances in which it will be permissible to use an exception under a rule. We are trying to achieve clarity and specificity in the bill.

I am not saying that the protection of livestock is not an environmental issue, but there is a practical distinction between someone who requires assistance with the protection of livestock and a long-term project for the eradication of an invasive non-native species on an island. The welfare issues are not different, but they are different activities.

In case I have not expressed that clearly enough, I will hand over to my colleague Hugh Dignon to see whether he can add anything.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Yes. The Government considers carefully and scrutinises closely every law that it passes. The exceptions in the bill reflect what is required in rural Scotland as we understand it and as stakeholders tell us. The reasons why dogs are used are mixed. RSPB Scotland has welcomed the fact that there is an exception for environmental use because we must understand that, although we want to pursue the highest possible animal welfare standards for our wildlife, there are circumstances in which humans have to control wildlife.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

For the purposes of today鈥檚 discussion about stage 1 of the bill, my answer is similar to my response to Jim Fairlie: all those issues are already being, and will continue to be, considered as the terms of the licence are developed. I am content at this stage that what is in the bill allows us to develop a licensing scheme that will be rigorous and which will cover what is needed. It is a framework at this point, and we will build on that through consultation and stakeholder engagement.

I know from speaking to stakeholders that one of the things that is most important to me is important to them, too鈥攖hat is, that the licensing scheme is available where no other option exists. I think that that is pretty robust.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

There is a provision in the bill to allow us to make supplementary changes, and if that section and the bill were passed, we could do it through that, so it would depend on whether that happens. I hope that my legal colleagues are not cringing at me making that assumption, but I think that that would be the provision through which it could be done.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

I will go back to something that I tried to convey in my opening remarks about closing the loopholes of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 and how, equally, the bill is about taking the opportunity to ensure that more do not open. The issue of trail hunting falls squarely into that category.

We have decided to ban trail hunting for two reasons. First, we think that there is an animal welfare risk in that an animal that is trained to follow an animal-based scent can easily pick up the scent of an animal elsewhere and begin the chase and kill, which is exactly what we are trying to stop.

Secondly, we are trying to ban it because we have evidence from down south that trail hunting is being used as a cover for the continuance of illegal hunting, so we want to prevent that from beginning in Scotland. It is not a well-established practice, so that part of the bill ought not to be controversial or difficult. It is about ensuring that we do not allow more loopholes to open.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Exactly.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

I want to accommodate what I can. What time do you think we might finish?