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There are two points in that. The first is about our clarifying the application of the bill to the various types of shooting activity that people might undertake. It will apply not to game but to wild mammals. Perhaps we need clarity on that. That is what this process is all about.

The second point was about rabbits. I have to be clear that one of our policy decisions is that rabbits should be afforded the same protection as hares. The reason for including rabbits in the bill is twofold. First, we accept that there are significant welfare issues when dogs chase and kill hares. We see no reason why that ought not also apply to rabbits, so we want to bring those within the definition of “wild mammal”.

Secondly, we know that, when people are caught hare coursing, they often say that they were shooting rabbits. We do not want to create that opportunity. On the point that Rachael Hamilton made, permission to be on land might eliminate the opportunity for people to say that they were shooting rabbits when, in fact, they were undertaking hare coursing, but it does not touch on our welfare concerns about rabbits being chased and ripped apart.

That is why rabbits have been included in the bill, and why I do not think that permission is enough to negate the need to bring rabbits within its scope.

Sorry—Hugh Dignon was just reminding me what RELM stands for.

I have undertaken meetings across the piece, and I have actively tried to engage with everyone who has an interest in the bill. From the beginning, I have always said that I am particularly interested in developing policy that people who will be affected by it will understand.

On the specific point about the RELM group—we think that RELM stands for rural environment land management—my colleague Leia Fitzgerald was just telling me that she has been invited to a meeting of the group and will be attending.

That is another interesting point, similar to the one about the training of police dogs. We would not want to do anything that got in the way of the operation of Police Scotland duties.

The absence of stop-and-search powers in the bill reflects the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006, which does not contain such powers. However, as with the training of police dogs, we will speak to Police Scotland and decide whether something needs to be accommodated at a later stage.

This comes back to the bones of the licensing scheme, as set out in the bill. Explicit reference is made to

“the minimum number of dogs”;

thereafter, that issue will be for NatureScot’s experts to determine—I am, of course, a politician, not an expert—according to the circumstances in front of them, which will include the size of the farm, the size of the fields, the number of sheep, the size of the environmental project and the rate of spread of the invasive non-native species. All those things will have to be taken into account. Therefore, I could not possibly determine what the minimum number of dogs would be in the circumstances.

I can do so. I might need to cancel whatever is next, but I will check.

Did you mean loss of livestock?

What is in the bill reflects our understanding of how people are operating right now. I mentioned what we might call environmental schemes, whereby, for example, invasive non-native species are being controlled on the islands. The way that we have expressed it in the bill tries to reflect how people are using dogs now. There is a difference between people who might set out on a year-long activity of eradicating an invasive non-native species on an island and, for example, a farmer who finds evidence that there is a fox in his or her fields and has to call on support in order to control that. I would not refer to the latter as a scheme; I would refer to that as the on-going workings of the farm.

I do not think that I am trying to draw a great distinction here. I do not disagree with you that there will be times when what someone is undertaking in order to protect lambs could be referred to as a scheme, but the bill seeks to reflect how people are using dogs in real life.

I cannot give detail today on the content of the licence beyond that which is set out in the bill. The bill sets out the mandatory requirements for what will be in the licence, but the development and terms of the licensing scheme will be informed by the bill process and the stakeholder engagement that we are already undertaking.

NatureScot will review the operation of the licensing scheme, as it does with the operation of all the licensing schemes and other matters that it is in charge of. In the Bute house agreement, there is a commitment to review the operation of licensing schemes generally to ensure that they are compatible with the law and in line with our expectations. The licensing scheme under the bill will be part of that review, too.

For the two policy reasons that we have pursued the ban, which includes the fact that trail hunting is not a well-established practice in Scotland, I am content that it is a proportionate measure to take.

My officials and I have listened carefully to the discussion as it has played out. A range of issues have been brought up. Some of those have pertained to terms that are defined and terms that are not defined. I know that points have also been raised about whether we should have an additional offence of reckless conduct. I am listening to all of that, and I am happy to discuss any issues in particular.

The reckless conduct point was one that I thought about particularly closely because it went right to the core of what the offence is. Right now, we are proposing the offence of hunting and a second offence of knowingly permitting, and I understand that there were some calls for there to be an additional offence of reckless conduct. For me, the principal aim is to have clarity of expression and understanding, not only for those who would seek to use dogs in pursuit of legitimate activities but for law enforcement. When we add a degree of subjectivity with something such as reckless conduct, we are getting back into the ambiguities that were the problem in the 2002 act.

I place a lot of emphasis on the phrase “under control” in the bill, because that will be a key provision—it is central to the bill. When the bill is passed, it should be very clear to any observer or to anyone who wants to undertake control of wild mammals when they have the dogs under control and when they do not. That is what we were lacking before, and that is what I want to maintain in the bill. Those are just some examples, but if specific issues have been raised with the committee that you would like to speak to me about, I am more than happy to talk about them.

I also mentioned the issue of defining terms and not defining terms. Where the natural meaning of a term is quite straightforward, we have tried not to unnecessarily enclose it in a definition, because we know that when we try to do exhaustive definitions, things will naturally be missed. That will allow those who would seek to circumvent the provisions to say, “Well, I was undertaking an activity that was outwith your definition”. It just makes it more complicated, so we have tried to avoid doing that where we can.