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Finding solutions to all the issues that you are raising is complex. I get every one of them; I understand them. George Burgess just made a point about enabling co-ordination for private kill, which was one of the biggest issues and one that I have heard about time and time again, from my time as a farmer right up until now. How do we ensure that we get access to private kill? There has been a focus on enabling that, so part of the funding has gone to ensuring that that co-ordination is happening.

People have a range of demands and things that they want to be done in different areas, which very much depends on where they are. People in Shetland have a request that is different to one that is based on the problems that those in the Borders face, and vice versa.

We are working our way through how to change the support that is made available to agriculture and, as I said in my opening statement, I am actively looking at how we can put much more resilience into small producers. We have a £500,000 pilot fund running right now, and, once we have some clearer thinking about how we can do more, I am mindful that that will be the kind of direction that we want to go in to ensure that we are putting in place support for small producers.

They are shut out of the funding for POs, but that does not mean that there will not be other thinking about how we can help people. That is what I have been saying right from the start. I am looking at how we can help to support small-scale producers across the country.

Listen, I am not disputing that. I understand that, when people see things being delivered in bite-sized chunks, they get frustrated because they think, “Where’s my bit? How do I get involved in that?”

The alternative is to do what they did down south and say, “There’s your policy. Get on with it.” That was an absolute disaster. This is what co-production looks like. It is frustratingly slow for some people, is not going far enough for one group and is going too far for another group. We are bringing the SSI to you to protect a particular fund because we know that it works, but I reiterate that I am looking at how we can support small producers as we go through the process.

On certainty, the most important thing is that we gave a commitment to continue with direct support. Our farmers know that direct support will continue, which is not the case in other parts of the UK. I get that it is tricky and that people get a bit frustrated, but we are proceeding in a way that allows people to move with us and they know that they have certainty about funding. We are looking at other ways in which to support small producers. The SSI protects a particular scheme that works. We want to ensure that it continues to work for producers in Scotland.

There are three POs, but I am not quite sure what the overall membership is. Their members produce a significant amount of fruit and vegetables in Scotland, and the POs give protection and security to that production.

During my opening remarks, I said that I am alive to the fact that we need to find better ways to support smaller producers, but that will be done in different ways through different parts of the legislation that is already in place. The SSI is about protecting the producer organisations that currently exist, so that we can give them security while we look at other issues.

If 20 of them join and that suddenly creates a demand for £50 million, I think I am right in saying that we cannot change that legally. Because we cannot change the scheme, because George Eustice decided to make it a reserved function, we would be obliged to pay that £50 million. Any number of producer organisations in England whose schemes have been scrapped and taken out from under them could decide to join POs up here and there is not a thing that we could do about it. Whatever the budget was, it would have to come out of our agricultural budget. There is nothing that we could do about that.

If we pass the SSI.

No, you are not. I have already said in a number of answers to you, Ariane Burgess and other members of the committee that we are actively considering how we give more support to small producers throughout the country.

The purpose of the SSI is to support a group of food producers who are doing an incredible amount of fantastic work in their areas. They are innovating, driving the market and doing all the things that we require them to do with a fund of money that is in danger of being increased beyond our control by other producer organisations joining from other parts of the UK. We would not be able to control that. That is the only purpose for the SSI. It has nothing to do with the Government’s intention for helping to support small producers.

You and I have had such conversations in the committee before and you asked me to change something because there was an issue. When there was an issue, I went away and looked at it and we came up with a solution for it. I hope that that gives you some comfort that I am not sitting here trying to blindside you or pull the wool over your eyes. I am doing everything that I can to ensure that we have a resilient industry for the whole of Scotland that has the Government’s backing and the funding that it needs in so far as we can provide it given the restraints that are on our budgets. I have done that time and again.

The SSI is entirely about protecting one system that works, which it does—I will argue that all day long. The people who produce the food tell me that it works and I am taking their word for it.

I do not know what you are looking to force my hand on. I do not know where you think you will push me to get something that you think that I am not prepared to do. I do not understand what you are asking of me. I have given commitments throughout the meeting about what I am trying to do to protect agriculture in Scotland, from small-scale producers to big ones.

It will come into place when I am satisfied that the solutions and funding packages that they have come up with will give us long-term resilience that is equitable and does what we need it to do as far as our policy objectives are concerned. I am not concerned that people might be impatient; I am concerned about making sure that we get it right.

It is business as usual for the group of growers that the SSI relates to.