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You will have to let me think about that question—it is out of left field.

The schemes that are in place now are doing the job that we are trying to get them to do. We are trying to get more people using public transport, we are trying to cut down on emission costs and we are trying to get that habit formed in the younger generation. Right now, with the schemes that we have put in place, we can see that the number of young people using public transport has increased.

I will give you some figures. More than 116 million free bus journeys have been made by under-22s in Scotland. That landmark policy is helping young people and families with children cut the costs of their everyday travel. There are now more than 700,000 cardholders. The scheme is working: it is getting people on buses and it is saving them money. The Child Poverty Action Group has reported that free bus travel can save

“a total of £3,000 in the lifetime of a child in Scotland”.

It touches on poverty, it touches on emissions and it touches on the desire to get people using public transport. For all those reasons, the schemes that we currently have seem to be working. If you want to come up with a better scheme to use that quantum of money, I will be interested to look at it.

The fair fares review is looking into all the systems and agreements that we have in place; when it reports, we will have another discussion.

Good morning, convener, and thank you very much for having me along. I am very pleased to take on my new portfolio as Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity, which includes bus and concessionary travel, and I thank the committee for inviting me to discuss the draft order.

The order sets the reimbursement rate and capped level of funding for the national bus travel concession scheme for older and disabled persons in 2024-25, as well as the reimbursement rate for the national bus travel concession scheme for young persons in the coming financial year. In doing so, the order gives effect to the agreement that we reached in January with the Confederation of Passenger Transport, which represents Scottish bus operators.

The objective of the order is to enable operators to continue to be reimbursed for journeys that are made under the older and disabled persons scheme and the young persons scheme after the expiry of the current reimbursement provisions on 31 March 2024. It specifies the reimbursement rates for both schemes and the capped level of funding for the older and disabled persons scheme for the next financial year from 1 April 2024 to 31 March 2025.

The model for setting reimbursement rates for the older and disabled persons scheme was established in 2010. As a result of developments in the wider bus operating market since then, it was necessary to review the analytical assumptions that underpinned the model. A new model has now been developed for the older and disabled persons scheme, which considers the latest available data and evidence on industry costs, passenger demand and travel behaviours.

The evidence that is required to produce a refreshed YPS model is still emerging, as the scheme is still in its relative infancy and travel behaviours are continuing to develop. Accordingly, it was agreed with the CPT that the reimbursement rates for the young persons scheme for the current year will be retained for 2024-25. For the young persons scheme, the proposed reimbursement rates are 43.6 per cent of the adult single fare for journeys made by passengers aged five to 15, and 81.2 per cent of that fare for journeys made by 16 to 21-year-olds. As in the past year, a budget cap has not been set for the young persons scheme in 2024-25.

The proposed reimbursement rate in the financial year 2024-25 for the older and disabled persons scheme has been amended from 55.9 per cent to 55 per cent of the adult single fare, and the capped level of funding will be £203.5 million. A realistic level has been set, which takes into account patronage levels and recovery in the scheme since Covid-19.

The rates that have been set are consistent with the aims that are set out in the legislation that established both schemes: that bus operators should be no better and no worse off as a result of their participating in the schemes; and that they will provide a degree of stability for bus operators.

Free bus travel enables people to access local services and to get the health benefits of a more active lifestyle. It should also help to strengthen our response to the climate emergency, support our green recovery and embed sustainable travel habits in young people. The order provides that those benefits will continue for a further year on a basis that is fair for operators and affordable to taxpayers.

I commend the order to the committee, and I will be happy to answer any questions.

Yes, but we have far better historical data for the older persons scheme.

Yes, it can be shared with the committee.

That will very much depend on the level of the cap and of the use. You are asking me to answer hypotheticals, Mr Simpson.

Is what not written down in legislation?

I think that I have already explained that. Let me see whether I can find this in writing so that it makes sense to you. If monitoring in-year suggests that the claims are likely to exceed the cap, claims for the latter part of the year are paid at a lower rate than that set out in the legislation, so as to keep total payments under the scheme within the statutory cap. If this was the case, Transport Scotland would write to operators as soon as possible during the financial year to let them know.

We are in a situation in which we have a fixed budget—

I have not managed up to now.