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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 2161 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

We will have a memorandum of understanding, and the guidance is under development. I suspect that somebody will ask whether franchising could go ahead whether or not the regulations are annulled. It could, and the traffic commissioner would still establish a panel but, without the regulations, there would be no conversation with officials or the Scottish Government about what the panel would look like, what its make-up would be or what its parameters were. The guidance that is under development will be part of the legislation, which will allow us to have full input into what the commissioner will do when they set up a panel.

My understanding is that, in 2019, we wanted to ensure that there was no political interference in something that is so big and so important and that it would be done independently. The process has to be gone through. It is not that simple to cut the corners. We can put it into the memorandum of understanding that the guidance that is under development will provide the parameters that the traffic commissioner will work to. If the regulations were annulled and if we continued with franchising, the traffic commissioner would make the decisions and we would have no input whatsoever.

09:15  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

We could revisit the act if people wanted us to do that, but we would have to forget about franchising between now and 2026, because we would have to go back to stage 1.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Will the member take an intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I did not say that I am confident about that; I said that it is a possibility. SPT is putting huge amounts of time and resource into the process of looking at its financial model and everything else that it will have to do. The current position means that we are going to stall the progress of the legislation that would allow SPT to set up a franchise. If the regulations do not pass, SPT will have to decide whether it wants to continue putting the time and resource into that effort when it is not sure what the direction of travel will be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I have not had any discussions with SPT. I am merely making the point that a huge amount of time and resource goes into the work that it is having to do around the process. If the instrument stalls today, I anticipate there being a risk that SPT could say that, until there is clarity on and certainty about what the legislation will do, it will pause spending money and putting resource into the process. I am merely making the point that that is a risk.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

There does. It is in primary legislation.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

No, I do not think that that is correct: we would have to change the 2019 act. That could not be done in a short timescale. I keep reiterating that we either pass the regulations or we do not, and we have already debated the consequences of that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes, there is.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

The process that you talk about being used down south is the Nexus process, which was different from this one. That looked at financial aspects; we are looking at the entire effect of franchising.

I will give you an example from my area. There are cross-border issues with bus provision in my constituency, and I give this as a purely random example of a possibility. If we decided in my area to go down a franchising route, we would be required to talk to all the other areas in our locality, so that there was joined-up thinking.

The process that was used down south failed the scheme on finances. My understanding is that the business case was not robust enough, so the proposal was then rejected.

One of the beauties of what we are proposing to put in place is that anyone who wants to go down the franchising route鈥攊t will be entirely their choice whether to do so鈥攚ill have to be absolutely clear in their mind that they have put forward the strongest business case, that they have consulted everyone who has a stake and a vested interest in what the franchise looks like and that they have spoken to their neighbours, because everyone knows that if you want to plant a hedge, that will affect your neighbour, and this is a similar kind of thing. Those involved will have to ensure that they have taken the biggest possible picture that they can in deciding that they want to do this and that they are going to go down this route.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

You talk about correction, but what does that mean? It means that we would go back to the primary legislation, and I can only see that creating a much longer delay, going into the next session of Parliament.