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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 2161 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Thank you. I just wanted us to be clear on that point.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Okay.

I will look at this from a sheep farmer’s point of view, given my background as a sheep farmer. To a sheep farmer, serious damage is when a fox is coming in and lifting lambs—killing lambs and taking tails and ears as trinkets for cubs, killing lambs to feed young cubs or just killing for its own food. For a sheep farmer, 10 per cent is a colossal figure to lose to a fox kill. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of killing, I am well aware of the distress that it causes not only to the lambing percentage, but to the shepherd or sheep farmer who has to go out every morning and deal with those kills.

One thing that slightly concerns me about this area relates to the licence being granted. To me, serious damage is anything when a fox is predating hens, for example. We will come on to environmental issues later. Who decides what “serious damage” is? If NatureScot comes back to the person who is in the position of looking after the livestock in their charge, whatever it is, and says that it does not consider something to be serious damage, how do we come to a balance?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

I will—because it had not occurred to me at all—go back to something that Ariane has just raised. You talked about recording numbers. When I had a licence to control ravens, we knew that the purpose of the bag number that we were allowed every year—which was increased—was for us to know that numbers were limited. With beavers for example, we know more or less what the national numbers are. If we are to record the number of foxes that are killed, is there concern that foxes are becoming a rare species in Scotland?

11:30  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Let me give you this scenario. If you had a pack of dogs hunting through a copse and a fox was flushed, and if you had two guns 75 yards either side and the fox went through the middle of them, you would have to go after it. I understand that that is a loophole, and I understand that that would cause genuine concern. However, if you have dogs hunting through a copse, most foxes will never see the hounds, because they are on the way out the other end. If you have 10 guns along the top, the fox is not going to get past the guns, therefore it is dead before the hounds are anywhere near it. Would that not solve the problem of chasing across open countryside?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Another thing that was mentioned was getting a licence for environmental reasons, which would have to be done under a scheme. Again, I will give my personal experience. I watched wading bird numbers plummet with the increased number of ravens. Nobody was paying attention to that, but the by-product of my being able to control ravens to protect sheep was that it helped to maintain wading bird numbers. Who is the best person to tell NatureScot of an environmental or ecological issue on land that it is managing? Who makes that decision?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

There will have to be co-operation and trust between NatureScot and land managers.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

It might not be that short, convener.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

I will go back a bit, because I forgot to ask you something earlier. In section 24, which is titled, “Crown application: criminal offences”, subsection (1) says:

“Nothing in this Act makes the Crown criminally liable.”

What does that mean?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Communication of Public Health Information Inquiry

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Jim Fairlie

That takes me straight on to a question for you, Stefan. My question relates to how the messages were put out and how the media were used. In this country, television is trusted, but print media not so much. That applies on both sides: there are certain papers that I will not buy and there will be folk who go the other way. Is public ownership important for people to be able to trust the information that they get from television?

11:15  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Communication of Public Health Information Inquiry

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Jim Fairlie

Let me stop you there for a wee second. I am going to go back to what you and Will Moy said earlier. When we have an information gap, that is when other stuff can seep in. There is a time gap too. We have information and we tell people that we are working on it and that they should stop living and stay at home to let us work it out. In the meantime, someone else comes along and feeds in other, damaging, information.