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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 3579 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Minister, I thank you and your officials for joining us. We will pause to allow you and your officials to leave.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

That was a very comprehensive response, and you covered a lot in it. Following on from that, I refer to the written submission that we received from Claire Wilson, who is the chief social worker at Aberdeen City Council. In answer to a question about whether it would be better to address issues in the system before introducing a new level of management through a care service model, she said:

“What would be beneficial is to pause the Bill in terms of justice to enable a review of the current system, co-design a new one and then a careful transition over to the NCS once the social care part is set up and arrangements in place.”

Bearing in mind that we have the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill coming down the track, as you have alluded to, and the potential increase in workload that that will bring to justice social work, I am interested in your thoughts about the suggestion that Ms Wilson made in her written submission.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you, minister. We move to members’ questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Rona Mackay has just outlined part of this, but I remind members that there are two reasons why the Government does not recommend giving consent. First,

“The Government is of the view that the Bill, as currently drafted, is incompatible with the Scottish Government’s views that those who have suffered during the Troubles are able to obtain justice and that those who committed offences during that time are appropriately held to account/punished.”

Secondly,

“the Bill makes novel and unwelcome changes to the functions and responsibilities of the Lord Advocate as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland”.

Those were the two key reasons. Does anyone else want to come in?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. I bring in Fulton MacGregor, to be followed by Russell Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

The next agenda item is to return to our consideration of the issue of legislative consent for the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill following the evidence that we took from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans. I refer members to paper 3. Members will see that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service has also provided us with its correspondence with the Northern Ireland Office.

I will open up the discussion to members. We will then consider what recommendation we want to make to the Parliament on legislative consent.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

The issue will now be sent to the chamber for all members to decide, based on our report.

That completes our final business for the year.

I take this opportunity to wish all members, our clerks and other staff all the very best for the festive season. I hope that you all have a happy and peaceful Christmas and new year.

I also thank all the witnesses who have given formal and informal evidence to the committee this year. It is greatly appreciated.

I now move the meeting into private.

11:36 Meeting continued in private until 11:46.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

We will compile a report and present it to Parliament.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 33rd and final meeting in 2022 of the Criminal Justice Committee. There are no apologies this morning. Our final agenda item, under which the committee was due to consider its action plan, will be rescheduled to a future meeting.

Our first agenda item is an oral evidence session on the criminal justice provisions in the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. Members will recall that, on 23 November, we heard from a panel of witnesses on the possible transfer of justice social work services from local government to the proposed national care service. Today, we will conclude our consideration by hearing from the Scottish Government.

I welcome Kevin Stewart, the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care; Anna Kynaston, deputy director, national care service; and Catriona Dalrymple, deputy director, community justice.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow about 60 minutes for the evidence session. I invite the minister to make a short opening statement, then we will move straight on to questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

We move to questions, and I will start. Minister, you acknowledged in your opening statement the specific role that justice social work has in our courts, among other settings. With that in mind, you will be aware of the forthcoming Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill, which the committee is beginning to consider. It includes a provision whereby justice social work would have a greater role in providing courts with information to inform decisions on bail. To date, the oral and written evidence that we have taken from witnesses suggests, perhaps not surprisingly, that that would potentially require greater resource for justice social work.

Will you outline your view on what the optimum model for justice social work would be, bearing in mind that we are at a very early stage? Would the best model be for it to remain within local authorities or to move to a care service setting?