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Before I bring in Rona Mackay, I would like to let members and witnesses know that I can extend the session. We are covering a lot of important ground, and I am keen that as many questions and responses as possible can be heard. On that basis, assuming that our witnesses are able to stay a little bit longer if required, I will extend the session. If need be, we will reschedule our final agenda item to just after Easter recess. I take it that that is acceptable.

I was just going to bring in Wendy Sinclair-Gieben on the previous question.

Thank you.

I will come to Linda Allan. The committee is aware of the traumatic experience that you have had with the criminal justice system, Linda. Are you able to articulate that experience to committee members and say how it has brought you to the work that you are undertaking now?

A very good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee in 2023. There are no apologies this morning.

Our first item of business is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 on today’s agenda in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Good morning. In your opening remarks, minister, you mentioned the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill, which the Criminal Justice Committee is considering. As you said, a key part of that bill is about improving the process of release from prison. I know that removing barriers to people accessing services and treatment on release from prison is dealt with in some detail in the cross-Government response to the task force’s report.

In the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill, there is a duty on ministers to publish throughcare standards for remand and sentenced prisoners so that there will be an improvement in the consistency of throughcare support. In the context of drug harm, the work that you are doing in response to the task force’s report, and the vulnerability that individuals face at the point of release, when they have perhaps come from a period of abstinence but are vulnerable to going back into an environment that will place them at risk of harm from drug use, will you give some commentary on what those throughcare standards should look like?

Thank you, Justina. I put the same question to Kirsten Horsburgh.

It was evident in the committee’s work that the point when someone is walking out of the prison gate is too late for throughcare and aftercare.

In the Criminal Justice Committee’s evidence-taking sessions, we have discussed release from prison, and particularly the challenges with unplanned release from remand. That can create difficulties for individuals whose release has not been anticipated but who nonetheless walk out of court.

How can we ensure that those people are supported, given that the support that they require will not necessarily look the same as the support for people who are released from a completed sentence? How do we ensure that that point of vulnerability does not take them back into a problematic situation where services and key worker support are not in place? I am interested in your views on that, because it is something that the committee has grappled with.

Thanks, convener, although much of what I wanted to cover has been covered by Russell Findlay.

We still work within the context of 50-year-old misuse of drugs legislation that might have been fit for purpose back in 1971 but most people agree is less relevant now, particularly in Scotland, where we are looking to develop a public health approach. A justice approach to drug use and possession is appropriate at the higher end where it is more about supply and possession, but we are talking only about possession. I fail to see the benefit of criminalising an individual who, because of their circumstances, experience and environment, is living with a drug harm problem. They would not choose that but circumstances have taken them to that place.

It might be helpful to open that question up to the other witnesses. Kirsten Horsburgh responded to the questions that Russell Findlay asked, but do Liz Nolan or Karen Reynolds have any comments about drug law in the context of what we are trying to achieve in Scotland?

Thanks very much, convener.

I have some questions about throughcare support on leaving prison. You may be aware that, recently, the Criminal Justice Committee has been considering the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. That process is on-going. The bill seeks, among other things, to reduce our remand population and therefore our overall prison population in Scotland. It also aims to improve the release process from prison, with a particular focus on reintegration.

As part of the submissions for today’s meeting, we received a case study from Aberlour on Sarah’s story and the support that she has been receiving at Cowan Grove in Dundee. There is reference to a period of time in prison when she was abstinent but, following that, she went into a long period of instability. I am sure that, sadly, that is not unusual. The bail and release bill also places a duty on ministers to publish throughcare standards for both remand and sentenced prisoners so that the level of consistency in support is improved. We have spoken about the postcode lottery across Scotland.

I will start with Justina Murray. Thinking about this as an opportunity to develop good law and robust throughcare provision, from your experience, what do you think throughcare should look like, particularly for women coming out of prison?