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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 3527 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I know that Sue Brookes wants to comment on a previous question. Do you want to address Jamie Greene’s question as well?

12:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Would anyone else like to come in before we move on?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you.

I will come to Linda Allan. The committee is aware of the traumatic experience that you have had with the criminal justice system, Linda. Are you able to articulate that experience to committee members and say how it has brought you to the work that you are undertaking now?

Criminal Justice Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee in 2023. There are no apologies this morning.

Our first item of business is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 on today’s agenda in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I warmly welcome Jim Shields, service manager, and Professor Lorraine Johnstone, consultant forensic and clinical psychologist, St Mary’s Kenmure secure care centre; Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, HM chief inspector of prisons for Scotland; Gerald Michie, governor at His Majesty’s Young Offenders Institution Polmont, and Sue Brookes, interim director for strategy and stakeholder engagement, the Scottish Prison Service; and Alison Bavidge, national director of the Scottish Association of Social Work.

I intend to allow about an hour for this session so, up front, I ask for questions and responses to be as succinct as possible, so that we can get in as many questions as possible.

We move directly to the questions. I will open things up with a general question for each of you. From your organisation’s perspective, will you briefly give a view on the provisions in the bill that set at 18 the cut-off point under which children will not enter the criminal justice system, and on whether that is appropriate? I will go from my left to my right, starting with Sue Brookes.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

We are coming up to half past 12. I admire our witnesses’ staying power and patience, and I think that I speak on behalf of members when I say that it has been a really helpful and informative session for the committee. Thank you all very much for attending.

12:29 Meeting continued in private until 12:58.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I will let Jim Shields and Lorraine Johnstone come in from the secure care perspective.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I am watching the time because I know that Kate Wallace has to leave. Thank you very much for coming. We will have a quick pause to let you leave the committee room.

We will continue our questioning. Rona Mackay has a question.

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Our next item is consideration of evidence on the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Mrs Linda Allan and Kate Wallace, the chief executive officer at Victim Support Scotland. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I thank both our witnesses for coming to share their views on the Scottish Government’s proposals. I intend to allow about an hour for this session, and I am aware that Kate Wallace needs to leave no later than 10.45 am, as I understand that she is also giving evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee this morning—so she has a busy morning ahead.

We will move to questions. I will open things up by asking Kate Wallace to provide the committee with a broad overview of the work that she is involved in with regard to children and young people.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I was just going to bring in Wendy Sinclair-Gieben on the previous question.