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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 July 2025
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Displaying 3527 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Our next item of business is consideration of evidence on the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs; Natalie Don, the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise; and, from the Scottish Government, Catriona Dalrymple, who is the deputy director of community justice, Tom McNamara, who is the head of youth justice and children’s hearings, and Barry McCaffrey, who is a lawyer. We give a warm welcome to you all.

I take this opportunity to welcome both ministers to their new roles and to thank the former cabinet secretary, Keith Brown, for his engagement with the committee over recent years.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow up to 90 minutes for this evidence session. On that note, I invite the cabinet secretary and/or the minister to make some brief opening remarks.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 April 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much, minister. As usual, I will start the questions and then bring in members.

Minister, in your opening remarks, you mentioned some of the witnesses who we have already heard from and some of the very helpful evidence that we have heard. I will start by looking at the issues around age. One of the main provisions of the bill is that people under the age of 18 are no longer placed in a YOI or prison. The committee heard evidence from a range of witnesses that there should perhaps be more scope for an individualised assessment process to determine whether and where a child or young person should be detained. That would be based on factors such as their development, maturity and, perhaps, their neurological development. Aside from the issue around resources, are there any other particular barriers to being able to provide an individualised assessment process for children who are entering the criminal justice system and, potentially, a secure environment?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I remind members to make sure that our lines of questioning are not about a specific case but about the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

There is a lot to cover. In the spirit of time keeping, I will bring in Wendy Sinclair-Gieben.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

I want to pick up on a point that Lorraine Johnstone made earlier. Lorraine, you said that secure care centres could potentially accommodate young offenders who have done something serious, but that restructuring and training would be needed. Are you aware of whether there has been any of that, or have you had any engagement with the Scottish Government about the potential for it and what additional resources would be necessary?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

So, the panel broadly welcomes the bill as a fairly good start, but with some caveats. On that note, I will move straight to members’ questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

That is nice and succinct.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Before I bring in Rona Mackay, I would like to let members and witnesses know that I can extend the session. We are covering a lot of important ground, and I am keen that as many questions and responses as possible can be heard. On that basis, assuming that our witnesses are able to stay a little bit longer if required, I will extend the session. If need be, we will reschedule our final agenda item to just after Easter recess. I take it that that is acceptable.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much. I will open up the discussion to members.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Members will be interested in that issue about victim notification and the differences between situations when the perpetrator is a child versus when they are an adult.

I want to pick up on the broad work that you do. Over time, have you seen changes in the number of children who you support or the profiles of the children who you support? I would like a general overview of how things are developing.