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I will bring in Rona Mackay, then Pauline McNeill.

I will come in. It is important that we understand where processes have had room for improvement, to date, but I am quite keen for us to use the session to look at how that is done going forward rather than looking back. It is absolutely appropriate that we look at where the issues are, but I would like us to focus on where improvement and changes can be made.

Good morning, and welcome to the 20th meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. This is the committee’s last meeting before the summer recess, so there are some smiles around the room this morning.

We have received no apologies this morning.

The first item of business is to decide whether to take items 4 and 5 in private. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Our next item of business is consideration of the responses to police officer and staff suicides. This is a very important and sensitive subject, and I am pleased that we have found time before the recess to hold this session.

Before we begin, I want to thank the families and friends of officers who have spoken to some members of the committee about their experiences.

I am very pleased to welcome our witnesses to the committee. Stewart Carle is general secretary of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents. Andy Shanks is deputy procurator fiscal, specialist casework, and head of the Scottish fatalities investigation unit of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. Assistant Chief Constable Gary Ritchie leads Police Scotland’s partnerships, prevention and community wellbeing division, and Katy Miller is Police Scotland’s director of people and development. Fiona McQueen is chair of the Scottish Police Authority’s people committee. David Threadgold is chair of the Scottish Police Federation. I extend a warm welcome to you all.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2, and I thank the witnesses who provided additional written submissions.

The session will run for about 90 minutes. Given the size of the panel, I ask everyone to be succinct in their questions and answers, if possible. I ask that members direct their questions to one or more of the witnesses, at least initially, and then we will see how we go.

I will begin with an open question for all our witnesses. We have been advised that it is anticipated that about four officers per year take their own lives. However, at the moment, there is no formal data collection on those numbers and there have been, I believe, no fatal accident inquiries held into the circumstances to date. That is an issue for some members of the committee.

I have two key questions. First, does that concern you? Secondly, what are the main issues that need to be addressed, or the main processes that need to be improved, in relation to how we prevent or respond to police officer and staff suicide?

Thank you very much. That is a helpful update. I am sure that we will come back to that.

I will come in on that to provide a bit of clarity. In my opening question, I made reference to an indicative number, which I think came from at least one, if not two, of the submissions that we received, which said that it was anticipated that there were around four deaths by suicide per year. However, that was not a firm figure—it was the anticipated number. I put that on the record. ACC Ritchie referred to it in his response. That is where the figure came from.

We need to bring our session to a close at this point. Thank you very much indeed. It has been very helpful and informative.

Before I suspend the meeting for a short period, I put on record our thanks to Graham Ross from the Scottish Parliament information centre, who has been our lead researcher on policing matters for many years—he is hiding behind Pauline McNeill just now. Members may not know that Graham is retiring in the summer, after 24 years of service to the Parliament. Graham, on behalf of us all, I wish you a long and happy retirement—we wish you well in whatever your next adventure may be. [Applause.]

Our next agenda item is consideration of a negative statutory instrument. I refer members to paper 3. Are members content not to make any recommendations to the Parliament on the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.

I think that David Threadgold wants to come in.

We are conscious of the time, so I am going to bring in Russell Findlay in a moment to wind up the session, but I would like to come back to the discussion that we had about the push-and-pull factors that end in a suicide by a police officer or a member of staff. Based on our discussions today, it seems to be difficult to pin down what those factors have been.

Fiona McQueen, how difficult is it for the SPA to scrutinise the way in which Police Scotland responds to such incidents, given that the factors that lead to such a tragic event happening are unclear, making it more difficult to put preventative measures in place. How do we scrutinise the response that Police Scotland puts in place?