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I have a follow-up question. Have you taken soundings on the views of staff on the duty of candour proposal and the implications that that would have for police staff as opposed to officers? Do you sense how popular that might be?

Recommendation 6 in the “HMICS Thematic Inspection of Organisational Culture in Police Scotland”, which was published in December last year, is:

“Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority should reinforce the human rights and ethics-based approach for all policing activity.”

I think that Victim Support Scotland’s submission refers to that. It seems that different areas of work are all coming back to the same conclusions. I open this question up to all members of the panel. Will the bill in its current form address that recommendation and what we have just heard regarding the public sector equality duty?

I warmly welcome to the meeting Chief Superintendent Rob Hay from the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents; David Kennedy, who is general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation; and David Malcolm, who is branch secretary of the Unison police staff Scotland branch. Thank you for your written evidence and for joining us today.

I intend to allow around an hour and a half for this evidence session. I will start with Chief Superintendent Hay and move across the panel.

I have a couple of questions about the proposed duty of candour. Do you think that the duty of candour, as set out in the bill, is sufficient in respect of ensuring the timely co-operation of police officers and staff in investigations? Is more required, or do you have a different view on the duty of candour? For example, one issue that has come up is whether it should include a duty of co-operation. There are a few sub-questions in there.

Okay. Thank you. That is helpful.

I ask David Kennedy the same question.

Thank you.

Kate Wallace, I will come to you and then open up questions to members. The Victim Support Scotland submission sets out support for a requirement for a code of ethics. It says:

“The need for a robust ethical framework to policing is also underscored by a recent inspection by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, which made a number of recommendations to improve underlying culture within Scotland’s police force.”

Some of the recommendations do, indeed, speak to improved leadership behaviours, delivering a set of actions to address fundamental inequalities between officers and staff and so on. The submission also says:

“it is crucially important that the Code is both read and fully understood by all constables”.

The issue therefore comes back to the effectiveness of the code and the understanding that officers and staff have of what it means to them. Could you expand a little bit on that position?

Before I bring in Sharon Dowey, I will come back to the point about training and performance. I was interested in your exchange with Rona Mackay on that. I get quite exercised about the issues around training and how that links to performance, and the link to some of the issues about the bill that we are looking at today.

We referred earlier to HMICS’s inspection of organisational culture. The chief inspector’s report on that came out last year and made some recommendations. This is possibly putting you on the spot a little, but recommendation 3 said:

“Police Scotland should ensure that the probationer training syllabus is more reflective of actual frontline demand”.

Recommendation 4 said that

“Police Scotland should prioritise the completion of an organisational maturity assessment of continuous improvement”

and organisational learning, which we have spoken about. What is the process for those recommendations being actioned by Police Scotland? I am interested in anything that you can share with the committee on that report.

Before I bring in Fulton MacGregor to ask some final questions, I will pick up on the exchange around the barred list, which we have heard some comments on. I would like to get panel members’ views on the benefit of a barred list and on the proposals around an advisory list.

Chief Superintendent Hay, I invite you to start, and then I will take the other panel members in turn. Do you have other comments to make on ASPS’s position on the proposals for a barred list or an advisory list?

Pauline McNeill, do you want to come in with a supplementary?

David Malcolm, do you want to comment on that before I bring in Sharon Dowey?

I have a question about whistleblowers. In the past, the committee has done quite a bit of work on mental health and policing, in the context of both the growing demand on police officers from people with poor mental health and the toll that the job of policing takes on officers and staff. SIPR has been particularly active in that area. We know the toll that a misconduct or disciplinary process can take on everybody involved.

I am interested in the position for whistleblowers. Do the bill’s provisions provide enough support for whistleblowers? If they do not, what else should be included in the bill to address the issue? For example, should there be an independent organisation for whistleblowers in Police Scotland and the SPA? If so, should that organisation potentially be the PIRC?

I will bring in Dr Lennon first and put her on the spot.