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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 June 2025
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Displaying 3500 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you, that has given us a helpful bit of background.

Genevieve Lennon, the point about monitoring was touched on in the SIPR submission. It is all very well to have a code of ethics that looks nice and shiny and new, but what is important is the application of the code of ethics and ensuring that its effectiveness continues as, for example, new officers come in, policing functions change and so on. Can you expand on what was in your submission on that point?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for that. I understand what you are saying鈥攜ou have set things out very clearly. The evidence that we have had so far suggests that there is support for a duty of candour, and that it perhaps reflects a robust approach to dealing with complaints and conduct issues, and transparency. Given what you have said, would the establishment of a duty of candour necessarily change what you have described? You do not see that there is an issue. I want to be clear about why a duty of candour would necessarily change that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Okay. Thank you very much.

I open it up to questions from members. I will bring in Katy Clark and then Russell Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Okay, and then I will bring in Fulton MacGregor.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is a helpful point.

Kate, this is a big question but, given that Victim Support Scotland is such a front-facing organisation, I am interested in hearing your views on your experience of engaging with the PIRC.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Okay. I am going to pull the evidence session to a close. Thank you all for joining us and for your time. It has been a really interesting session.

We will have a short suspension to allow a changeover of witnesses.

11:06 Meeting suspended.  

11:13&苍产蝉辫;翱苍&苍产蝉辫;谤别蝉耻尘颈苍驳鈥&苍产蝉辫;&苍产蝉辫;

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is a helpful clarification.

This has been an interesting session, and we have covered quite a lot. Thank you for coming along today; we appreciate your time.

That concludes the public part of our meeting, and we will now move into private session.

12:47 Meeting continued in private until 13:13.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I am sure that members will come back with some more questions on that interesting notion around an ethics culture survey. That is certainly a new one on me.

I have one follow-up question around breaches of the code and the implications of breaches. What came into my head when you set that out was how easy or difficult the practicalities of being able to respond to breaches of the code would be, given the vast range of breaches that could take place. Do you have a view on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Recommendation 6 in the 鈥淗MICS Thematic Inspection of Organisational Culture in Police Scotland鈥, which was published in December last year, is:

鈥淧olice Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority should reinforce the human rights and ethics-based approach for all policing activity.鈥

I think that Victim Support Scotland鈥檚 submission refers to that. It seems that different areas of work are all coming back to the same conclusions. I open this question up to all members of the panel. Will the bill in its current form address that recommendation and what we have just heard regarding the public sector equality duty?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I warmly welcome to the meeting Chief Superintendent Rob Hay from the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents; David Kennedy, who is general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation; and David Malcolm, who is branch secretary of the Unison police staff Scotland branch. Thank you for your written evidence and for joining us today.

I intend to allow around an hour and a half for this evidence session. I will start with Chief Superintendent Hay and move across the panel.

I have a couple of questions about the proposed duty of candour. Do you think that the duty of candour, as set out in the bill, is sufficient in respect of ensuring the timely co-operation of police officers and staff in investigations? Is more required, or do you have a different view on the duty of candour? For example, one issue that has come up is whether it should include a duty of co-operation. There are a few sub-questions in there.

11:15