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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1442 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

That concern has been raised with me by all stakeholders. The definition that was determined by DEFRA is that the male has to be 20 inches in height and the female has to be 19 inches. Therefore, an XL bully that was 16 or 17 inches would not have to wear a muzzle and lead. That caused quite a lot of confusion down south when the UK Government’s order was implemented, and it advised that anyone who has any doubts should register their dog.

We have also found, through the correspondence that I have received and that Jim Wilson has received, that there is confusion among the general public. We are keen to learn lessons on how we can do things better in our legislation in respect of the issues that have been raised. We have until 31 July. We will put on the Scottish Government website some support and help for people to determine whether they have an XL bully.

I do not know whether Jim Wilson has anything to add.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Jim knows the timescale. It will not be until later in the year.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

It is on the Scottish Government website.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

No, I do not believe that the Scottish Government finding that out via BBC News is the right way for the UK Government to treat devolved nations in respect of such decisions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Yes, in a way. I do not know whether it was totally intentional or the UK Government just disregarded telling the Scottish Government, but it would have been ideal if there had been communication prior to the announcement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

I do not believe so. I should also say that we found out on 31 October about the UK Government’s publicly announcing the timescale and the detail, but I was not made aware of that formally until a letter was sent on 9 November.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

I will bring in Jim Wilson, as there are so many organisations. Concerns have been raised; the provisions have not formally been opposed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

As Ms Grahame knows, this has not been an easy decision or one that has been made lightly. I do not like to go away from the “deed, not breed” approach, which the Scottish Government supports, but we find ourselves in a unique position in which we must take this action because of community safety and the loophole that has been created by the legislation. I have met Ms Grahame and, once the legislation before us has gone through, I am keen for us to work together to see how we can reform and strengthen her Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Absolutely. One thing that will move forward after the dust has settled on all this is reform regarding dangerous dogs. I am very keen to work with Jim Fairlie, who is the new minister with responsibility for animal welfare. He has been in his role for only a few days, but I will have a meeting with him as soon as I can to see how we can work together.

You are right. Moving forward, it will be very important that we engage with all stakeholders, including the groups that you mention.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

That was one of our initial concerns when the announcement was made. Jim Wilson was meeting the UK Government weekly and trying to get clarity about that. The UK Government did not come back saying “We can’t legislate in Scotland”, as such. The response in the letter that I received on 14 December 2023, which we had been requesting for months, was unclear and vague. I would not expect the UK Government to legislate for Scotland, but my not meeting UK Government ministers was not intentional for any constitutional reason; it was just because I was looking at the legislation and at what was happening in Scotland, engaging with stakeholders and Jim Wilson weekly to be kept updated.